3320 w/ 300CX FEL won't lift and Dump??

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

I never noticed this problem with my 430 loader. but went and specifically tried it. There is no problem with it, is easy does both simultaneously...

 

[Jomo45]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

My dealer sent out the Deere rep, he confirmed that it is almost impossible to lift and dump at the same time, and then it is at a snails pace. He also confirmed the SCV valve used in these tractors is non-adjustable (cheaper). He thought was that you have to go to a commercial tractor to get the upgraded valve allowing adjustments and better control. IMO, the price we pay for these machines they should come with the commercial valve..... The Kubota's cost less and they do...

Where did you find the "2005 Commercial & Consumer Equipment Purchasing Guide"? That is interesting. I also pointed out to the Deere rep that I made part of my purchase decision based upon the loader demo video on the 3X20 web site. It brags about the speed advantage of the Deere, the thing they don't show is simutaneous functions, the Kubota will anihilate the Deere in that area, pretty mis-leading...

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( It brags about the speed advantage of the Deere, the thing they don't show is simutaneous functions, the Kubota will anihilate the Deere in that area, pretty mis-leading... )</font>

I'm not out to start a flame war here, but I seriously question if that video reflects real world senerios and their entire product line. At every product sales training I have ever been to they always knock Deere for having slow loaders. In many cases their speeds are over 2x as slow as the competition (I have BX vs 2210 times somwhere). Not that this is always a good thing, sometimes I wish some functions where slower so you could have more control.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Isn't loader speed inversely proportional to lift capacity within a given pump capacity?

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Isn't loader speed inversely proportional to lift capacity within a given pump capacity? )</font>

I always thought it would be, but apparently its not. From one of my pieces of literature... (not NH to be objective)

2210 has 5.5gpm
TZ24 has only 3.75 gpm
the loader lifts are neck in neck.

2210
Boom raise 3.8
Boom lower 2.0
scoop 3.4
dump 2.4

TZ24
Boom raise 2.9
Boom lower 2.9
scoop 1.9
dump 1.4

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Um, ok stick with me here...

Are these lifts measured at the same point, 'cause that's real important you know..!

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Weird!

 

[KennedyDiesel]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

I haven't tried the raise and dump at the same time, but have you tried this with and without the regen active?

 

[Jomo45]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Good question. Yes myself, the Deere Service Manager, and the Deere Zone rep have tried everything. (We think!) I've been working on this with them for almost 2 months, it really keeps coming back to the lower cost SCV valve Deere is using. For most folks this just won't be a problem, for people used to Kubota, or commercial equipment from most makes, it will seem pretty obvious. (and kinda a pain!)

 

[Doug_Norman]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

A few thoughts/replys.

I got the JD 2005 COMMERCIAL & CONSUMER EQUIPMENT PURCHASING GUIDE from a dealer. It was the second dealer I visited. I was frustrated by the JD web site because I thought I should be able to click on an attachment and get a simple specs page with a price - like you'd expect from any decent web site. I had questions: How deep will this till? How much will this bucket hold? How high can I reach? What I thought were obvious questions. So I asked this second dealer if they had any spec sheets. He sent a guy upstairs to get a box of these - funny I had to ask. It's a great book - about a half inch thick - and will probably sell me on more attachments. Of course I'll have to buy a tractor first - right after they fix this valve problem.

I also compared to the Kubota GL3130. It will easily do all functions simultaneously with decent speed. I noticed that on the JD, two simultaneous functions had decent speed, one was dog slow, and one didn't work. I asked the Kubota rep and he said Kubota uses a better valve. The JD sales guy tried to make it sound like they made it that way for safety. Like I'm not smart enough to do two things at once.

I don't buy it. I also agree that if you've used bigger commercial equipment like a backhoe, you expect it. On a backhoe, you need to be good at three things simultaneously if you want to be efficient - swing right, extend boom, dump. Since it's usually a rental for me, I gotta get all I can out of 8 hours.

I'm also curious. It seems a few people here have said their 3520s and 3720s seem to work. Could this be only a 3120 and 3320 issue?

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Well, to adress another thought, I have NO such issue with my backhoe. I have heard the statement "You just can not do two functions at once with these small hoes" too often not to test THAT! Mine isn't a rental, and I usually am not in a hurry, but I do try and keep improving my efficiency. It is one nice digging machine.

I am curious, too, to hear other owners try this. BTW, have you guys been doing ythe lift/dump with full or empty buckets? I tried both, with no difference, but it might be a change on the 3x20s...

 

[Jomo45]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Mike and Doug,

The efficiency issue is exactly my point, not as important in a small farm/hobby tractor, but I still contend that the Deere shouldn't be a compromise, they are supposed to be the best! (I think they are in most ways)

Mike,

On my neighbor's and my tractor (both identical) the problem occurs under load, or no load condition.

Just a side note; lest anyone think I am anti-Deere, I am not. This is my second Deere Product, the first was just an LX188 lawn mower, it was an absolutley flawless machine for 10 years (the freind I sold it to still loves it!) In addition I really like my new 3320, I do feel it is a better laid out very high quality machine, and is more user friendly than the Kubotas, just dissapointed in what appears to be a cost saving measure on the SCV valve.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Cost saving.. In the 10 series you couldn't choose either the rear or mid pto to operate. If you chose mid, the rear spins too. Some focus group told them that was OK, considering a financial savings. They got heat over that, and it is fixed on the twenty's. Guess the focus group thought they could save the money somewhere else...

SO, if it IS the valve, I wonder if the valve from a 10 series would fit...

[EDIT]
Look at what JDParts says:

LVA10901 VALVE, 3 SPOOL SCV 4210-4710 $475.00 USD
VA12600 VALVE, 3 SPOOL SCV 31-4720 $670.00 USD
Notice the same valve is now used for both mid and large chassis machines....

So why is the 'cheaper' valve more $$ ?!!

 

[dicker]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Good morning

I have a 48 hoe with a 4310 and I find that if I don't do two functions at the same time, the hoe will get jumpy, especially when returning the boom. So, because of that and saving time, I always try to do two functions at the same time. I also back off the RPM's to around 2000 when using the hoe.

Richard

 

[Jomo45]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

My dealer also told me the 3X20 and 4X20 series uses the same valve. This is a non-adjustable, take it or leave it type of valve. By "cheaper" I am refering to outside the Deere world, the competition is using a higher grade adjustable valve. The lack of adjustment prohibits Deere owners from getting the valve orifices set up to allow simultaneous lift and dump. The current non-adjustable valve is a compromise, works good in lift/curl, lower/curl, or lower/dump, but can't open properly for lift dump. Some owners on this forum are not having this issue, I can only assume their valve is slightly different (manufacturing tollerances?). What happens after years of wear? Commercial equipment (and Kubota) has adjustments to compensate, allowing full use for years to come with out replacing parts.....

 

[aesanders]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Anyone have any updated info on this situation? Did Deere get this fixed or improved upon?

 

[Dutch445]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

I posed this question to a rep from Deere at the FLorida session, and was told about the "series vs parallel" valves, and their differences. If I remember right, on the Kubota valve, there was one corner of the instruction label that didn't have the combination of 2 functions.. which I thought were lift and curl. I was told that that type of valve does not do the heavy functions at the same time because when you split the flow, you lose pressure etc.. and performance drops. (meaning trying to lift a load while curling it back).
Their valve did have multiple functions around it's instruction label, allowing dump and lower, lift and dump,, etc.. but it
did not have lift and curl at the same time.
It's very confusing for me, let alone a consumer!
I also asked about it being a cheaper valve,, and i asked about leakdown issues,,, and was told that they seem to have that problem addressed to a more tolerable level... although not eliminated...

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Jomo45]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

I basicaly ran in to the "brick wall" on this one. The Deere area rep came out with the service manager, they agreed that the loader doesn't do simutaneous functions well (some not at all). They tried the Parallel vs Series debate, then said they would go back to Deere to get an answer. The answer after a couple weeks was "that's the way they work, there is nothing wrong"....

I have learned to live with it, but it's definitly a time waster if your moving a lot of material. For a hobby farm it probably isn't any big deal, any landscapers trying to make a living might want to try it before the buy.....

The loader does seem to have very good power/lift capabilities, and I really like the rest of the tractor's features. They say life is full of compromises....

Good luck!

 

[lgcivttu]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

The 3320 will lift and roll and the same time...

The loader wants to lift more than it wants to roll so just compensate with the loader control to make the loader lift slower and roll more, hence don't jam the control to max lift and max roll, just give it max roll and only 20% lift. or vice versa, max unroll and 20% lower.

Am I making sense?

 

[JasonMac]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

Is this issue only with the new tractors? My JD 4200 with 420 Loader would do all simultainious funtions.... I know because I'm a skilled operator on Heavy Equipment and Tractors... When I operated my 420 Loader, you would swear that the tractor was equipped with a hydraulic self-leveling feature, like found on a case backhoe. I would always lift my bucket while gently dumping at the same time to keep my load nice and level... just so I wouldn't get no backspill on to the hood of the machine... so did JD change this valve set up only on the newer machines... because on my 4200, there wasn't any move I couldn't blend... Because the way it sounds to me is that the new levers are 4 way, not 8 way like the older style..... I don't want to look like an amateur after so many years of finessing my old loader!!!!! just kidding.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Re: 3320 w/ 300CX FEL won\'t lift and Dump??

this is a new issue, Deere has been using a cheaper hydraulic valve on most of the new tractors. Does anyone know if this is also an issue on the 400cx loaders? I have not heard.