4 in 1 bucket tip

Anonymous Poster · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Hi everbody,

I've been relying heavily on the wisdom/experience of Mark and other hydralics-knowledgeable posters.

Been trying to get a grip on this regen./non- regen. stuff re. the 4in1 bucket operation. I boiled it down to "You DON'T want regen. for the "close" function on the bucket."

So I was fearfully anticipating trying to decide/help-my-dealer-decide which of Mark's "3 solutions" to go with, and HOW to make a clean installation.

I am (tentatively) excited and relieved to discover(I think!) that for JD owners there is a "solution 4", that seemingly couldn't be any easier.

The JD SCV lever for the loader (at least on the 4500,4600,4700 models) has a "lock lever" that allows the operator to completely "lock-out" the regenerative function!

Here is the paragraph from p.39 of the operator's manual:

[[ "Move lock lever to middle position (D) to prohibit engagement of the "REGEN" (regenerative) function of the SCV. This position is recommended for all attachments except for the front loader. Loader operation may benefit from the use of the REGEN function. REGEN is available only in position (C)."]]

To me, this sounds like I just make the proper hose-connections to the bucket, "lock-out" the REGEN, and go-for-it. ( The dealer and I tried it on a 4600 w/460 loader on his lot. The "dump" times (empty bucket/idle rpm) were REGEN.. 5.32 sec., NON-REGEN (regen "locked-out).. 13.04 sec. If I understand what I have been reading here, this change in speed would indicate that the bucket is indeed operating "non-regeratively", i. e. stronger "jaw-clamp", when REGEN is locked out.

Is this "too-good-to-be-true"?

I'm afraid my ignorance is letting me miss something here.
Somebody yell at me, and tell me what you think!!??

Thanks,

Larry

Anonymous Poster · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

In case I wasn't clear ... the bucket on the tractor we tested the dump-times on was a regular one. There was no 4in1 set-up on it.

I'm wondering how the "preferred"(by Mark) rollback-dump vs. open/close-jaws operation fits-in here (on the JD)?

Per the manual: lever to rear/raise, forward/lower...lever to left/roll-back, right/dump.

??

Thanks again,
Larry

MChalkley · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Larry - The valve you're talking about sounds like the perfect solution, as you suggest.

You'll still want to hook up the hoses so, with the button depressed, it closes when you "roll back" and opens when you "dump".

MarkC

Anonymous Poster · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Thanks Mark, I'm going to try to hook it up as you say... I've printed out all the discussion about the valving, in case it might help my dealer's people "get the picture", since they say they haven't put one of these on before. Hopefully their general competence will see us through.

It's always good to have your opinion!

Larry

dmccarty · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Larry,

I have a JD 4700 with a 4n1 bucket.

I have to use the middle position to open and close the 4n1 bucket. If I move the lever all the way to the top, open and close will NOT work.

I've been kinda puzzled by the section of the manual you have quoted and my FEL operation. On the other hand everything works. And I don't think it is slow.

I have tried the to dump the bucket with regen and without and I did not notice a difference. I did not time the operation just seat of the pants kinda thing. I'm sure I was running at 1500 RPM or there about since that is what I usually run the engine for FEL work.

I guess I'll have to go try this out more scientifically!

Later....
Dan McCarty

Anonymous Poster · Dec 30, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Dan, I'll be interested in whatever you learn.

Do you have a JD, Long or other brand 4in1?

If you have time (at your convenience!) would you mind describing your valve and hose connections?

Does your bucket dump/open and rollback/close as Mark prefers? Do you have a Long-type thumb-button on your control lever?

Needless to say, since we have the same tractor, I'm very eager to hear how it works for you!

Thanks,

Larry

markcg2000 · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Dan (and Larry),
I'm slightly confused by what you two are saying. The 4 in 1 requires another valve, as well as the original two valves for raise/lower and dump/fill, so how would you plan on operating the 4 in 1 from the SCV?
While I don't have plans on getting an FEL ($$$), I do have the SCV and the four connectors. I'm debating the use of them or the addition of the rear hook-up wwhen doing a top link next year (or, at least, I HOPE to do a top link /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif.

mark

dmccarty · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Hi Larry,

I was going to work on the property but alas that did not work out. I gotta take a day off sometime! I'm planning on going Monday so I'll time the bucket operations.

I assume I have a JD brand 4n1 bucket but I don't really know. There is not an obvious name on the bucket. Its black if that helps.

Describe valve and hose connnections. I'll have to look and to provide more detail, but I just hook up the yellow to yellow, red to red, green to green, etc.

I lack any more knowledge!

What I do know is that I have a diverter value for th 4n1 and a thumb button on the control lever.

I don't think I my 4n1 works as Mark likes since I'm pretty sure I'm using the regen function on the bucket.

I don't have any complaints about the speed of the bucket opening or closing.
Having a 4n1 bucket on a FEL is so useful its unreal. FELs without a 4n1 are handicaped as far as I'm concerned. If I only had an FEL I think I would have only accomplished half of the work I have done on the tractor. At least 50% maybe even 75%.

Of the four implements I have, backhoe, FEL with 4n1, box blade, and rotary cutter. I would give up the box blade and rotary cutter before the 4n1 FEL. It would be hard to decide between the 4n1 FEL and backhoe.

But I'm doing land clearing, driveway building, and road fix'n. The 4n1 is critical to doing this kinda work. When I busted a hydraulic hose on the bucket and was forced to work a day without the full use of the 4n1 it was very painful. I really effected what I could do that day.

I'll time the bucket stuff Monday.

Later...
Dan McCarty

dmccarty · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Mark,

I THINK but I certainly don't know for sure since I never really looked into the 4n1 operation but I have a diverter value that I have assumed just used the hydraulic pressure for dumping and raising the bucket and diverted the fluid to open and close the bucket.

I just told the salesman that I wanted a 4n1 bucket with a thumb button in the FEL control.

I have a 3rd SCV with a Power Beyond Kit that I use only for the backhoe.

I hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

Anonymous Poster · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Markcg,
My understanding is the same as Dan's.

When the bucket is ordered from Long, it comes with a hydraulic "kit" that I assume includes the (electric)thumb-button(switch) that controls a diverter valve which, when depressed, DE-activates the bucket rollback/dump, and ACtivates the 4in1 close/open, using the same lever-motions, respectively.

Remember that I don't actually HAVE this unit yet...it is on-order. What I say here is my best UNDERSTANDING of things. I could certainly have a less-than-accurate picture of it all. Maybe some others will speak to this issue, and help us get a better grip.

In any case, I'll post more when I get it!

Larry