4 in 1 bucket tip

markcg2000 · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Thanks, I must have missed that part about the button earlier. So, when you press the button, which FEL function does it replace?

Anonymous Poster · Dec 31, 2000

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Markcg,

Again:
http://www.tractorbynet.com/cgi-bin...t&Number=26287&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1#Post26287

dmccarty · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Hi Mark,

To control the open/close operations on the 4n1 bucket you press the red button and move the FEL lever right/left.

With the red button pushed and a lever move left causes the bucket to close. If you want to open push the button and move the lever right.

Unless I got that backwards!

Its hard to have to think HOW it works! Especially on a Monday morning!

FEL lever left dumps the bucket and lever right brings it back up.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

Bird · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Re: FEL lever left dumps the bucket and lever right brings it back up.

That would be backwards from the way mine works, but then you have a John Deere, so maybe it's backwards./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

dmccarty · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Bird, Bird, Bird, Its those Orange Tractors that have things backwards!

I'm pretty sure I got it right, move FEL right and it dumps/closes. The backhoe's right control moved right digs. Move the same control left and it dumps. I think everything works the same.

Apparently I did not get it right this is what I should have said!

I'm pretty sure I got it right, move FEL left and it dumps/closes. The backhoe's right control moved left digs. Move the same control right and it dumps. Now that I'm totally confused and have no excuses since I HAVE had a Cup O Coffee, I'm going to go hide! I just asked a question in the Rural Area about building a house and dared asked about my sanity. I'm really wondering about my sanity!

BTW, I did not get out on the property on Monday to do our regen/nonregen FEL cycle time test.

I should be out this weekend.

Later....
Dan KnowsHisLeftFromRightJustNotWhatTheyDo McCarty

Edited by dmccarty on 1/2/01 11:20 AM.

Bird · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Hey, now you've changed and got it; right dumps, left curls./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Maybe those green tractors do work right./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I have to throw a rock now and then to tell my right hand from the left, too./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Bird

Anonymous Poster · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Dan,

From page 15-1 in JD manual (430 and 460 loaders):

"OPERATING CONTROL LEVERS -
Move lever(A) forward to lower loader, and rearward to raise.
Move lever toward operator (left) to roll-back bucket, and away (right) to dump.

Move lever to extreme right for faster bucket dump(I assume this would be with REGEN "unlocked").

I hope to rig my 4in1 to "close" with a left/rollback motion, and "open" with the right/dump motion.

This seems "intuitive' (and easy to remember) to me, because when you pick-up(gather in your arms) or grab(close your fingers around) something, the "motion (of your arms or fingers is "towards" your body...i.e., a "left" motion of the joystick.

Makes sense to me... what do you think?

Larry

Anonymous Poster · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Dan,

Re.; [[BTW, I did not get out on the property on Monday to do our regen/nonregen FEL cycle time test.]]

Remember that the regen(5.32 sec.) and non-regen (13.04 sec) dump-times I got at the dealer were at "idle" (however that may have been set... I didn't note the rpm-asked him later!).

A JD brochure gives the 460 loader dump-time as 2.2 seconds... no rpm given. The signifigant issue seems to be that, regardless of rpm, the non-regenerative time should be SLOWER than the regen time... if in fact the regenerative "assist" is being locked out. This is what we want for our 4in1 bucket operation, if I understand Mark correctly.

Larry

Anonymous Poster · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

Maybe we should be timing the "roll-back", instead of the dump, if we want to know if the 4in1 jaws will close slower(stronger), in which case it will be the "towards the body"/left joystick-motion that will be the issue.

Seems to me the REGEN-lockout should take care of it in either case,... but I'm too hydraulically-challenged to be confident.

What does anybody think?

Larry

MChalkley · Jan 2, 2001

Re: 4 in 1 regen. \"solution #4?\"

All rollback circuits are non-regenerative (not nearly enough force is generated by a regenerative one for the necessary breakout force), so the closing force (if you use the rollback circuit to close the 4-in-1 bucket) will always be whatever is generated by the pressure of the pump and the size of the cylinders on the bucket. So, the speed/force tradeoff issue isn't (an issue, that is).

The other thing to keep in mind is that it's so inconvenient to use the 4-in-1 bucket if it's plumbed to close using the dump circuit that it's a royal pain trying to get anything done. In order to pick up anything, particularly loose material, you have to roll the bucket back as you clamp it. So picture this scenario (with the bucket plumbed "backwards", i.e. close using the dump circuit): Drop the bucket into a pile of whatever. Now, using the following abbreviations:

RB - Roll Back
BC - Bucket Close
JL - Joystick Left (Rollback Position)
JR - Joystick Right (Dump Position)
JC - Joystick Centered (Neutral Position)
TD - Thumb button Down
TU - Thumb button Up

, this is what you have to do: [1]TD, JR (BC), JC, TU, JL (RB), JC, go back to [1] to start the whole process all over again, ad infitum, ad nauseum. (Try it with your hand, using a pencil or something to get an idea for how irritating doing this about 10 times in a row can be, because that's what you'll be doing to pick up something.)

Now compare that with the process if the bucket is plumbed correctly (i.e. the roll back circuit closes the bucket): [1]TD, JL (BC), [2]TU (RB), TD (BC), go back to [2] to repeat the process. Now try this with your imaginary joystick. As you can see, all you have to do while you're actually picking up the material is depress and release the thumb switch. No comparison.

MarkC