4320 do I load the tires or not

[art]

Fill the tires you need the weight for that loader! What is right for a tractor that pulls a cultvator all its life and needs all the traction it can get has no berring on what a loader tractor needs. When your tractor starts to tip over it doesn't happen slowly. In order to add enough weight you would have to load the inside and outside of the rims. Do you really want weights sticking out from your rims that will rub things as you try to sneak by doing loader work in tight quarters?

Rear wheel weights can be installed both outside and inside to keep a narrow profile. With a cultivator tractor I'd dare say it would never have weights needed to work unless some on the front to balance a three point hitch unit.
The more unnecessary weight added the sooner the tractor wears out, the more fuel you will burn and the more damage you do to the soil. Not counting the fact if you do have a flat you spend twice as much to fix it. It's your money, when purchasing a unit see if the dealer wwould work with you in steps for the ballast, start with the cast which anyone can remove if you are to heavy and then if needed add the liquid. We currently are at less then twenty percent of the tractors sold are with calucium and we sell over 75 percent with loaders. Did you ever think that maybe the water sloshing around in the tire on a steep side hill might be what caused it to rollover!

 

[JYD]

thanks for all your input. For starters I am having the tires loaded. and will go from there. The dealer mentioned it cost $250.00 total if I do new , and $350-$400 if i do later, plus the hassle of getting the unit to the shop.

Unit is in , but waiting on the Millonzi grapple which should be shipped on Thursday.

JYD

 

[LWB]

I'd load the tires on such a small tractor as cast weight adds a lot of stress to the differential. The idea that cast is somehow better than liquid ballast was perpetuated by a bunch of engineer types who didn't have much real world experience. Most every tractor out there has a few of those "better ideas." Mine ... nobody told me when I had a rear wiper installed that the motor would be directly in line with the rear view mirror. And it's a John Deere! The statistical data that Art sites may be accurate as far as it goes but I saw no mention of adjusting the tire pressure. If you add buoancy you counter with reduced pressure. Most "experts" will tell you that the majority of tractor tires are over pressurized anyway. Mine are loaded. It neither sprints like a cat nor lumbers like an elephant. It pulls like a tractor.

 

[art]

I'd load the tires on such a small tractor as cast weight adds a lot of stress to the differential. The idea that cast is somehow better than liquid ballast was perpetuated by a bunch of engineer types who didn't have much real world experience. Most every tractor out there has a few of those "better ideas." Mine ... nobody told me when I had a rear wiper installed that the motor would be directly in line with the rear view mirror. And it's a John Deere! The statistical data that Art sites may be accurate as far as it goes but I saw no mention of adjusting the tire pressure. If you add buoancy you counter with reduced pressure. Most "experts" will tell you that the majority of tractor tires are over pressurized anyway. Mine are loaded. It neither sprints like a cat nor lumbers like an elephant. It pulls like a tractor.

Just for your info, the cast would cause less stress on any differntial parts as it would retain consistantcy in the load unlike liquid! Just think about it! You are right that tire pressure is a major part of grabbing good traction! That is the first part of seeing if ballast and how much is needed. What I have presented is not new, we've been moving this direction for over ten years that this info has been out and it has proven to be effective in both compacts as well as the larger tractors.
I'm just trying to help people buy the best for there money for the long haul, I still have customers that will only go with the liquid filled tires and as much as they watch their neighbors and wonder why they can do what they do, they to are satisfied with the old ways of doing things. When I first started selling tractors we wouldn't sell one in two hundred without the calcium. Now it is currently less then twenty five percent that get liquid ballast. That includes compacts and farm, compacts are currently more common to have them loaded(we have a large amount of retired farmers) although the people who have tried it, are now selling the solid weights for us. Do you by chance work for a rim or tire company that stands to profit from the added repair costs or a fuel company?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Just for your info, the cast would cause less stress on any differntial parts as it would retain consistantcy in the load unlike liquid! Just think about it! You are right that tire pressure is a major part of grabbing good traction!

Art, this comment and your other comment about sloshing fluid causing tractor rollovers just don't make any sense. Filled tires are supposed to be filled between 75% and 90%, mainly to prevent any significant sloshing (and you can't go over 90% because the tire needs some flexibility and give for hitting large bumps). Also, while I'm not sure that wheel weights are bad for a differential, I don't see any reason that filled tires would be any worse.

My local dealer that sold me my tractor endorsed the filled tires, even though they pay someone else to do it and make pennies profit, while they might have instead sold me JD weights or a ballast box, which I suspect are higher profit items. This is the largest JD dealer in my area, with 7 locations and an ag-oriented business (lawnmowers and even CUTs are just incidentals to them). And the Kubota dealers also told me filled tires were the way to go. One of those Kubota dealers didn't have the contract to do rimguard at their place, but instead of trying to sell me wheel weights or calcium chloride, they told me where to go for the rimguard fill! I also note that both JD and Kubota manuals specifically discuss filled tires and don't say anything negative about filling tires. That, from two of the best tractor-engineering companies in the world - both of whom make and sell wheel weights and ballast boxes, but not tire fluid.

I am keeping an open mind and am really interested in any reports from the tire manufacturers or a third party (like a university or extension service) saying that weights are better than filled tires. But I don't find just the plain assertions that it's working better for your customers to be very informative.

 

[JerryG]

Firestone or Michelin one used to have a big article where they had done research comparing fluid ballast to cast iron. Everything in the article was just as Art has been posting. They have both changed their sites and I don't know where it is at now. There are things that Art says from time to time that I don't agree with, but as far as ballast goes, I agree 100%. I have used tractors with both and much prefer cast iron for several reasons.

 

[Nuru]

Firestone or Michelin one used to have a big article where they had done research comparing fluid ballast to cast iron. Everything in the article was just as Art has been posting. They have both changed their sites and I don't know where it is at now. There are things that Art says from time to time that I don't agree with, but as far as ballast goes, I agree 100%. I have used tractors with both and much prefer cast iron for several reasons.

Gee JerryG and Art, i had almost talked my self into getting my 4310's rear tires filled, but now you got me wondering. My main issue is that i have lawn with slopes that I have to mow, and the 4310's widest setting is only 66 inches. I am thinking of getting some hub spaces so that I can widen its stance. I also have a ballast box. However, the ballast box does stick out there a bit. I do have the options of wheel weights and i have some universal weights laying around I could use

JerryG; Besides what Art has mentioned, what other issues have you experienced with loaded tires?

 

[Z-Michigan]

Firestone or Michelin one used to have a big article where they had done research comparing fluid ballast to cast iron. Everything in the article was just as Art has been posting. They have both changed their sites and I don't know where it is at now. There are things that Art says from time to time that I don't agree with, but as far as ballast goes, I agree 100%. I have used tractors with both and much prefer cast iron for several reasons.

I have the vaguest of vague memories of seeing a Michelin article on this topic, I think several years ago when I was looking for info on car tires or something. If anyone saved either company's article on their computer and can post it, it would be very interesting to read.

 

[JerryG]

Gee JerryG and Art, i had almost talked my self into getting my 4310's rear tires filled, but now you got me wondering. My main issue is that i have lawn with slopes that I have to mow, and the 4310's widest setting is only 66 inches. I am thinking of getting some hub spaces so that I can widen its stance. I also have a ballast box. However, the ballast box does stick out there a bit. I do have the options of wheel weights and i have some universal weights laying around I could use

JerryG; Besides what Art has mentioned, what other issues have you experienced with loaded tires?

The major ones are leakage, removal, replacement cost, and wheel adjustment. I have seen many wheels leak for some time before the owner even knew they were leaking. Then how do you know for sure that your tire service got all of the salt washed out good, especially if a mobile unit is used? I have known more than one person that had a leg or knee damaged from taking them off or putting them on. If you are out in the field mowing, you may not even notice that you have a leak until you have lost a large part of the fluid because the multi ply tires will hold up quite a bit of weight before they go down. It is really hard to tell for a while if the ground is rough. Then if you lose it the cost is out of your pocket again. Try to adjust a loaded wheel to a different setting on the wheel disc. It isn't easy and includes another chance to get the wheel on your leg. These are the reasons that I made my wheel weights back in 1999 and still use them on the tractor that I have now. The way mine are made, it is easy to take one nut off and remove 50 pounds at a time. It seems to me that there are several compact tractors owned by TBN members that are way over ballasted. That is hard on the engine and the entire drive train. A person needs to try to shot for 90 to 110 pounds per PTO horsepower. Then there is what Art said about the way the tire responses to the ground with ballast and without. If the tire isn’t optimized, then the added weight is just weight to cause more wear and cost more fuel as well as to make your tractor sluggish.
Nuru, have you operated your tractor with the wheels at the 66” yet? Just a few inches added in width will make a big difference with the way the tractor acts on slopes. The wider the wheels, the less weight that there needs to be on the wheels. (That is for stability but not for pulling.)

 

[Z-Michigan]

I did another search and found only a little - most relevant is this:

A day with a TIRE GURU

It says not to fill RADIAL tires because it will keep them from flexing. That makes some sense. I am pretty sure my tractor, as well as most CUTs, has bias ply tires, which inherently don't flex much. This article is silent on whether filling bias tires is bad, but since it specifically says not to fill radials I have to think that there is less of an issue with bias tires.

Also found Michelin AG:

Michelin AG - Reduce Soil Compaction

This article tells you not to over-ballast but doesn't say anything about fluid filled vs. other types of ballast. (Though obviously fluid is the most difficult to remove and add back for varying usage.)