4400 will not crank.

[Mick Oz]

A friend has a John Deere 4400. A year 2000 model,

so not antique but 22 years old.
He is having trouble starting it.
Turn the key and all that happens is a very soft Click from behind the dash.
Battery has 12.7 volts and the same at the starter. Both the small white wire and the large terminal on the side.
I tried to check the neutral safety switch, by putting a circuit tester on the two wires that come out right infront of the Forwards and Reverse pedals. These showed a complete circuit, in the two wires coming from the loom and the two wires coming from the pedals.
Can you point me towards a wiring diagram, or any other suggestions.
I know he had the starter solenoid replaced about 3 months ago, which seemed to solve the problem. But then it started the same No Crank fault again.

 

[Roadworthy]

Check the battery voltage while trying to crank. See how much it drops. A failing battery may have the proper voltage but when asked to provide current the voltage may drop in half or less. Will the tractor start by jumping the starter? Your solenoid may be bad or getting inadequate voltage through the key. On some tractors owners have put in a relay energized by the key but with a separate, heavier circuit to the solenoid. Of course you should clean and tighten battery connections and not neglect the ground at the frame.

 

[beenthere]

Agree with Roadworthy
Sounds like the battery.. clean all cable connections, and get the battery load tested.

Then go from there if more testing is needed.

 

[Mick Oz]

Check the battery voltage while trying to crank. See how much it drops. A failing battery may have the proper voltage but when asked to provide current the voltage may drop in half or less. Will the tractor start by jumping the starter? Your solenoid may be bad or getting inadequate voltage through the key. On some tractors owners have put in a relay energized by the key but with a separate, heavier circuit to the solenoid. Of course you should clean and tighten battery connections and not neglect the ground at the frame.

Jumping the starter produces a decent spark, but no crank.

 

[Mick Oz]

Agree with Roadworthy
Sounds like the battery.. clean all cable connections, and get the battery load tested.

Then go from there if more testing is needed.

I will load test the battery

 

[Richard001]

Jumping the starter produces a decent spark, but no crank.

OK I'm confused. What do you mean by "no crank" ?

Are you saying that you get arcing when you touch the jumper to the starter terminal ?

Richard

 

[Mick Oz]

OK I'm confused. What do you mean by "no crank" ?

Are you saying that you get arcing when you touch the jumper to the starter terminal ?

Richard

No arcing when I mistakenly touched, starter hot to ground. Sorry for the poor discription

 

[Mick Oz]

No arcing when I mistakenly touched, starter hot to ground. Sorry for the poor discription

No crank, the starter does not turn at all

 

[Richard001]

No crank, the starter does not turn at all

Are you using a seperate battery to test the starter ?

Your best bet to see whats going on with the starter is to use a seperate battery, like from your car, no you don't have to take it out, just jumper it to your tractor using some heavy duty jumper cables.

Connect the negative battery terminal from your car to the tractor engine block. Then connect the other jumper cable to the positive battery terminal on your car. Make sure that the other end of that cable is not touching any part of the tractor.

Put the tractor in neutral and then touch the cable to the the large terminal that you show in your first photo. If maybe best to wear some safety glasses. If the starter does not run, then your starter is bad and is in need of repair.

Richard

 

[Mick Oz]

So I finally got back to the Tractor with a load tester for the battery.
Unfortunately the battery is good.
I then ran a small wire from the Hot/Positive post on the starter to the exciter on the Starter solenoid where I had disconnected the white wire in photo from.
This made the starter spin the engine very nicely.

 

[MTGreen]

Sounds like the starter solenoid is not getting trigger voltage when key is turned to start position. Check the seat switch and any neutral/PTO/safety switches. If all these test good check the ignition key switch.

 

[Mick Oz]

So to me, this means the starter and solenoid do work, and the battery is good.
While I was doing this I did have the ignition key in the run position, but the engine still did not start.
I pulled the ignition key assembly out, then tried to test the white wire from the back of the ignition key to the solenoid.
I could not get a signal through from the white wire in the electrical connector at the back of the key to the solenoid.

 

[Mick Oz]

Neutral safety switch seems to have been bypassed, I am looking through the manual at the moment trying to understand the wiring diagram to see if the pictured white wire below driver's seat on the left is the neutral safety wire. The picture is taken from behind the tractor to the left side.

 

[MTGreen]

Neutral safety switch seems to have been bypassed, I am looking through the manual at the moment trying to understand the wiring diagram to see if the pictured white wire below driver's seat on the left is the neutral safety wire. The picture is taken from behind the tractor to the left side.

That may be where the seat switch was. Crimp on terminals like those are suspect - may want to verify they haven't corroded by measuring continuity across them

 

[Mick Oz]

I may have the incorrect wiring diagram as I believe this diagram shows 3 red and 1 dark green wire coming from the key switch.
But my switch has 4 reds a dark green and a white.
How should I test the key switch?

 

[Mick Oz]

That may be where the seat switch was. Crimp on terminals like those are suspect - may want to verify they haven't corroded by measuring continuity across them

Thank you.

 

[MTGreen]

I may have the incorrect wiring diagram as I believe this diagram shows 3 red and 1 dark green wire coming from the key switch.
But my switch has 4 reds a dark green and a white.
How should I test the key switch?

Try tracing back from the start relay to the key switch - that will be the wire that needs to be energized in the key start position. If that gets power check the start relay output.

 

[Mick Oz]

I was refering to the wrong diagram, this one seems more relavent. I plan to get back to it tomorrow, before things get too hot, it was almost 90 deg F here and over 85% humidity.

 

[Richard001]

Keep at it. Follow the battery voltage. Make sure that it the voltage switches to the appropriate terminals on the switch in accordance with the switch diagram.

 

[super55]

I had a similar issue with my 4400. I would try to start and hear a click behind the dash but everything would completely black out on the dash. After about 2 minutes it would light back up and try it again with same result.

I traced the wiring all over the place. Solution was I cleaned up where the ground wire bonded to the frame and replaced the battery terminals. Both connectors had a bunch of broken strands inside the insulation. As soon as high amps were being attempted through the system it would just cut out. Since I did that I haven't had any issue.