Oil & Fuel 471 not getting fuel

[pduck]

I ran my tractor about an hour before it stopped like you shut off the switch, 243 hours on it, no warning of anything wrong. Seem that it is not getting fuel but the odd thing is the starter turn over while it's in gear now, never done this before. Tried the gas trick in the air filter and it fired up, this indicates it's not getting fuel. Anyone have any info on the fuel system of this beast?
Thanks for any help you can give, I know very little about diesel engines.
Duck

 

[MFRED]

Does yours have an electric fuel pump or manual. If it's electric, have you checked to see if it's working? Checked all the fuses? Sometimes the decal to display what a fuse is for isn't correct. The feed line out of the tank isn't plugged is it? Oh, and it has fuel in it right?

 

[pduck]

I did check all the fuses and all are good, the fuel pump is electric, sounds the same as always when turning on the ignition, it is running from the tank into the bowl. I drained it several times in hopes of flushing trash out but still no good, and no trash, pleanty of fuel flowing to the filter bowl. Could it get air in the lines running? To bleed the lines the book says remove the "atomiser" cover, of course I have to remove the tank and instrument panel and everything else to do that. Any sugestions are appreciated, thanks for responding.

 

[MFRED]

You can crack the lines at the injector pump end and crank it over to make sure you have fuel out of the injector pump. If not, check the fuel shut off solenoid. It's towards the back by the injector lines. You should hear it click. I would also pull it out and make sure it's moving.
If that stuff seems to be good then it's inside the pump. I've seen trash fuel stick the vanes in the pump. Fuel treatment is a must. If you suspect this I've got a few tricks to try before the pump needs to be pulled. Check the easy stuff first.

 

[pduck]

I will give it a try this morning, all I know so far is that it's getting fuel from the fule pump, I will crak the lines coming out of the injector pump to see if I am getting fuel or not, the solenoid I have not listened for but will try that as well. I will let you know the outcome, it just seems to freewheel when attempting to start the engine, line a mower with no sparkplugs in it.

 

[pduck]

I checked the lines and they are getting lots of fuel to the injection pump, coming out is really sort of spitting foam, not sure how much fuel is supposed to flow? The solenoid is making no noise that I can hear, if it's the one in the picture with the arrow.
Thanks for your help

I hope that link works, it's Thanks for your help

thanks again
PDuck

 

[MFRED]

Alright. The blue arrow is the shutoff solenoid, I think your going to want more voltage there than your getting, but, if you're getting something out the lines with the yellow arrows, your getting some fuel through. It should be more of a thick squirt. I don't know how to describe it but you will know it's got some force behind it.I'll have to check on the voltage on that shutoff. Have you put fuel conditioner in the system lately?
A quick thing, crank it over and lightly tap on the rear of the injector pump with a small hammer. If the vanes are sticky they could be jarred loose this way.

 

[pduck]

I will give it a try with the hammer, I have tapped all over it and the solenoid with the back end of a screwdriver with no luck but will get a little more agressive without breaking anything. I have never added any fuel conditioner of any kind, always thought that was for storing long term, but then again I have added fuel from last years can. Any recommendation on conditioner? Do I hurt anything by removing the solenoid switch and the line that goes to it? I am a little afraind of getting air in the system, probably too late for that concern, but sort of hate to remove the tank, dash, and all that goes along with getting to the top of the injectors. But will do whatever necessary.
thanks

 

[MFRED]

You can remove the solenoid, I think there is a sealing washer under it.
Today's fuel, well it's junk. I usually add Power Service or Lucas and about a 25% Marvel Mystery Oil mix. This helps keep things clean & lubed. If you take that solenoid out, dump some in there, crank it over to get in in there & let it sit for a few hours. Be sure to put some in the tank as well.
I'll still check on the voltage for that solenoid. The fact that it cranks in gear now still rests in the back of my head.

 

[pduck]

Yes sir, same here on the cranking part, I read the owners manual and it said that the hi - low range gear had to be in the neutral position to crank, but I always had to have both shifters in neutral before. I was pulling dirt off of a hill with a box blade, backing up, dropping the box and running down about 15 feet repeatededly for about 20 minutes, when I backed up the hill dropped the box, pulled it into first gear it shutoff. I have checked the neutral start switch on the gear box and PTO lever, jumped them out to test. I have the owners manual but it's not very helpful in troubleshooting, great source to find what things are and where they are located.

 

[DJ54]

Just a thought on the starting in gear thing... I asume it does have a neutral safety switch on the transmission... I took the liberty of looking on the AGCo site at the 471. Again, I am assuming what I was looking at in the wiring harness, was a neutral safey switch on the tranny. Looks similar to the one on my Ford 2000. May want to take it out, and see if it is activating. Just may be stuck in the closed circuit mode... I'd think a continuity test would tell you... I'm thinking what I have seen before, just basically a spring loaded ball to activate. Maybe the spring broke.. I can't think it would be gummed up, especially with those low hrs. Just a thought...

Not sure what the odds are of both things happeneing at once..., or having to do with each other... But around here.... PRETTY GOOD..!! LOL...

 

[pduck]

I have not checked it with a meter yet but certainly will, I did attempt to bypass it in the field when it broke, may have not had a good connection so it's definately worth a try. Thanks for the help, I am trying everything I can get from you folks.
PD

 

[MFRED]

Well, the manual says to put your ear close to the fuel shutoff & see if you can hear it click. I've checked with a test light before to see if they get power, but not with a meter.
It very well could be a stuck safety switch allowing it to start in gear.

 

[pduck]

THE BEAST RUNS!!!!! Thanks for all the advice and things to try, here's the outcome for future reference. I tried everything you guys told me, as it turns out the solenoid was the problem, not because it was bad but because it was not getting fire all of the time. After taking everything apart Friday night, bleeding the lines, taking apart the solenoid, filter, draining fuel, adding conditioner and marvel mystery oil, put it all back together and it fired like it had never had a problem. Ran it for 20-30 minutes all was well, washed it to clean out all the junk, got up the next morning same thing, no start. Long story but I check every connection on it, a wire on the alternator was lose, tightened it up, and it ran the rest of the day. So I worked on it every evening for a week because I had (have) a lose screw! Thanks very much for your help.

 

[DJ54]

Great to hear..!! Amazing how something simple like that and just drive you up the wall...!! Sometimes we overlook the obvious..., but who would have thoguht...

 

[MFRED]

Excellent.

 

[pduck]

I'm sort of hate to keep asking questions but I have learned so much valuable info from this I feel I should ask about other things I need to consider. Never thoought of fuel conditioner, marvel mystery oil, or any of those tricks that takes years to learn, can you give me any other tips I need to watch out for, items that need more attention than others ahead of maintenance schedule? I have a hole in the fuel sender float as well, 40 bucks for a new unit, can't find the little plastic bulb anywhere, scared to try anything else. I will keep reading the forums, I have only been attempting to become a farmer for about 4 years, man have I wasted a lot of money, time and effort learning the hard way. Thanks again.