4WD and loader work

   / 4WD and loader work #61  
Make sure you use a heavy counterweight on the back end to keep the weight from transferring mostly to the front axle. Without a counterweight you'll be overstressing the front axle and the front and rear axles will be binding against each other.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #62  
Without a loader, it will, for the most part, only result on bald tires. With the extra weight of the loader plus whatever it's carrying, it often results in stripped couplers on the drive shaft to the front axle or stripped bolts on the ring gear of the front axle.

Results of running in 4WD all the time, regardless of the conditions or even need for 4WD in the first place. Only 412 hours on this tractor.

312747683_5430260557080539_8654006439752145002_n.jpg
 
   / 4WD and loader work #63  
I also find that running my tires at recommended pressures allows EASY in and out of 4x4.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #64  
I have one tractor that I bought new in 2007 and one I bought used in 2016 and another I bought new 2022.
I almost never take them out of 4WD.
The ONLY time they would be out of 4WD is if I drove them up the driveway which is like a dirt road. Then, I would even put them in high range too.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #65  
In 1974 I bought a pu NEW that had a 203 in it, it never gave problems, and I never converted it.

It was a decent pu but I never really liked it, it was a bit low on power and used too much gas.

SR
The conversion really helped gas mileage. I could get 20 with mine on a highway trip. Hard to get 10 with full time.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #66  
I read in the manual for my LX2610 that it's fine to work in 4WD doing loader work, which I have been doing. I watched a video with Tractor Time with Tim and one of the comments was that he should not being doing loader work in 4WD as it's gear on gear drive and its grinding gears when one of the front wheels spins and the other doesn't.

I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Edit:
I should have been more clear, TTWT was doing similar work as I was, a commenter, not Tim, said that.
Hi,

Tractors are like all 4WD equipment. The real issue is making tight turns, that you should not do any time because it places a lot of stress on the gears and other front end components as well as help lead to premature oil seal leaks.

Being in 4WD is not the same as having the lockers engauged. When engauged lockers tie all 4 wheels together without the effects of free wheeling in the differentials so when using the lockers keep the machine aligned in a fairly straight orientation until the machine is clear of the situation that triggered the use of the lockers. eg. soft terrain where there is a high risk of getting stuck.

4WD alone allows some freewheeling and therefore safe to do while using the loader. (Freewheeling does not grind gears it is supposed to work that way.) The machine will perform better even when working with soft materails and 4WD will give the machine better stability because the bucket's payload places weight over the front wheels alowing greater control. To prove the point consider the time you got stuck in the mud and the left rear and right front wheels rotated but the others did not which was why it was stuck. Engage the lockers and all 4 spin. Your still stuck but at least you know everything is working ok. BTW a yank'em kenetic rope is a great thing to have when you need to get pulled out of a sticky situation. They provide a constant pull even when the tow machine has stopped and reduces the risk if twisting your frame.

I can't stress the point of not making sharp turns while in 4WD mode. An example could be while mowing to the end of a row and turning back to start the next one. As you clear the row lift the mower and take it out of 4WD before making the turn. Then reenguage 4WD and drop the mower to continue under load.

Tight turns are the devil when it comes to 4WD so try to aviod them whenever possible, and keep it straight when using the lockers otherwise happy scooping.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #67  
Technically a true 4WD transfer case is not a differential but an AWD transfer case is. Has to do with fixed versus variable ratios between output shafts
Actually it is another differential between front and rear instead of left and right. Nothing to do with ratios.
While light tractors may not be designed with enough strength in their gear system. Saying they are grinding while in use is a bad description or misunderstanding. Keep in mind loaders that are strictly loaders are full time four wheel drive and performance is the best. Loading the bucket is primarily intended for material that is already excavated unless the bucket has teeth. Operator error or abuse is another matter.
 
Last edited:
   / 4WD and loader work #68  
Interesting thread, but my 2004 dodge Dakota had the 203nv? Transfercase that was full-time awd and I wish is was still an option today!
 
   / 4WD and loader work #69  
I read in the manual for my LX2610 that it's fine to work in 4WD doing loader work, which I have been doing. I watched a video with Tractor Time with Tim and one of the comments was that he should not being doing loader work in 4WD as it's gear on gear drive and its grinding gears when one of the front wheels spins and the other doesn't.

I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Edit:
I should have been more clear, TTWT was doing similar work as I was, a commenter, not Tim, said that.
I agree with another poster that one should never use 4x4 when 2x4 will do. However, I usually engage 4x4 when doing loader work, especially when working on a slope. It gives extra traction, and aids stopping/braking when going downhill.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #70  
The OP said: " I'm confused as to why the manual shows what it does below for 4WD."
There is nothing there that should confuse you. It simply shows you how to engage the 4WD. SO ?

You also said Tractor Time with Tim said "he should not being doing loader work in 4WD." None of us know what the context of that remark may have been but overall it is bullcrap. Use 4WD when you feel you need it or it offers you an advantage. This thing is supposed to serve you, not the other way around.

And I agree with Sawyer Rob -- stop watching foolish videos. In fairness to TractorTime with Tim, there was almost certainly some kind of situation which we cannot know (and you apparently did not absorb) that caused Tim to make such a pronouncement. So ignore it.
Maybe Tim Should stick to a shovel and wheelbarrow?
 
   / 4WD and loader work #71  
I's proof that the manufacturer is telling you that they made and sold everybody a peace of crap. You buy the dame thing to do the heavy work so you don't have to. They know that, but the skimp so they can make big profits off of you and get you to keep coming back to rob you some more. This is what the Cabal does. just like all the food you buy is all GMO , even what you plant yourselves. The ground, rain and air is all tainted from cem-trails.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #72  
All of us who own tractors with a FEL use them to "dig and carry stuff." Most have learned that the tractor is better balanced, gets better traction under varied conditions, etc. with some weight on the back and usually keep something (like a bush hog, box blade or other attachment) on the back.

Without that we will break our front axles !!?? Oh balderdash ! Nonsense. Load on the rear will only reduce load on the front axle by a small % -- just do a simple drawing and look at the lever lengths and where the c.g. of the machine is. In general, placing a load on the rear will rarely if ever prevent "breaking" a front axle.

This thread started out with some poor newbie afraid to use his 4WD and now we are worrying him by talking broken axles? Good grief!
Someone’s using 10th grade geometry to explain ballast. FINALLY! Look at the labels you didn’t remove from the loader. The Kubota FEL model number is the weight rating in KG. Multiply it by 2.2 to get pounds. Now, isn’t it possible that Kubota engineering would size a loader and set the relief in the loader valve so that it WON’T break the front axle? But all bets are off if you’re on uneven terrain which tilts the axle to the stops and puts the weight on one front wheel. You probably shouldn’t be using the FEL in that situation (ROLLOVER!!!!!), but I won’t tell you that you can’t. I often pick up lighter stuff with my grapple in similar but less severe conditions, making sure that I can easily lift what I need to, and then only enough to get to more stable conditions. I’m more likely to turn around and drag with a chain in that situation. Either way, I use 4x4 for better traction and braking (yes, the rear brakes affect the front wheels in 4x4), and low range to keep engine speed up for the hydraulics but let me creep for stability and safety. Roll bar up and belt on, of course. If I spin in 4x4, let off to stop, step on the dif lock, and let all 4 wheels help. The main reason for spinning in 4x4 is opposite corners of the tractor on higher ground will cause the other two corners to lose traction. Dif lock solves the problem, and is something the military learned the hard way on the old MJ series Jeeps. Speaking of which, I stuck my first Jeep at the ripe old age of 12 when I straddled a stump that was about a half inch too high. That turned into a very long walk and valuable lesson, especially since I had to walk it twice to get the 8N back home, too. My stepdad believed in severe lessons to correct stupidity. And I also figure Charles Darwin was a purty smart dude, too.

I have the LX2610, too. It’s a lot tougher than you think. The frame and drivetrain is designed for a larger machine.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #73  
I read in the manual for my LX2610 that it's fine to work in 4WD doing loader work, which I have been doing. I watched a video with Tractor Time with Tim and one of the comments was that he should not being doing loader work in 4WD as it's gear on gear drive and its grinding gears when one of the front wheels spins and the other doesn't.

I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Edit:
I should have been more clear, TTWT was doing similar work as I was, a commenter, not Tim, said that.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #74  
I read in the manual for my LX2610 that it's fine to work in 4WD doing loader work, which I have been doing. I watched a video with Tractor Time with Tim and one of the comments was that he should not being doing loader work in 4WD as it's gear on gear drive and its grinding gears when one of the front wheels spins and the other doesn't.

I just want to make sure that I'm not doing anything wrong.


Edit:
I should have been more clear, TTWT was doing similar work as I was, a commenter, not Tim, said that.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #75  
I load blow sand from my drywash frequently and couldn’t do it in 2WD with the load all up front, I tried and got stuck. Been loading this way since 2006…
 
   / 4WD and loader work #76  
I have a MY 2000 New Holland 2120. When Scooping Dirt with the loader, I always select 4WD and Low Range as I am heading into the pile. It is better to share the effort on both Front and rear differentials rather than put all the strain on the Rear. Tire Spin is actually a good thing and it not harmful to the machine. What you don't want is to be driving in 4wd on Pavement especially when turning where there won't be tire spin. Having weight in the loader and in 4WD on pavement is even worse.

Most Tractors have smaller wheels in front which means that the front wheels turn faster than the rears. The inner axle ratio determines how much more the fronts turn compared to the rears. This is very important when choosing new tires and wheels. I've heard that the fronts can lead but never lag and the ratio for the tires should be within 4% or less. Tractors that use the same size tires front and rear don't have this concern.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #77  
Couple things:
1. A properly designed 4WD/front wheel drive assist axle should have a gear ratio and tire sized appropriately so that the front and rear wheel ground speed is as close as possible to the same. If not, this is just asking to snap drivetrain components and is a terrible design. Furthermore, if the design causes the front wheel ground speed to exceed the rear wheel ground speed, it will put all of the power to the front wheels while slipping the rears, which is not what you want considering that the front axle is typically a weaker link in the chain. So do the front wheels have a higher RPM? Yes. Do they do this to achieve the same ground speed as the bigger rear wheels that spin at a lower RPM? Also yes.
2. If you live on flat ground and don't run a loader and everything is perfect with no traction issues, you don't need 4wd on a tractor anyway, so don't even bother spending the extra money to get one. Me personally, 90% of my land is sloped, my compact tractor has a loader on it and 2/3 of the time the ground is wet and traction is low everywhere (we get a lot of rain here in the Piedmont region of NC). Unless I'm on dry pavement and the loader is empty (very rare), I have it in 4WD 100% of the time. If the loader is full, I always have it in 4WD because rear traction is still an issue when the loader is full. I find that it's actually unsafe to operate a tractor on my land unless it's in 4WD, even with nothing in the loader bucket. Facing downhill I might as well have no brakes at all when it's in 2WD because most of the weight transfers to the front wheels, and I did take a hell ride once because I forgot about this. Even a mild slope has a drastic effect on which wheels get traction. My previous situation was the same type of sloped land but Southern California and dry all the time. I had a Massey 204 2WD tractor with the loader on the front. I had weighted wheels, ballast in the tires, rear 7ft gannon box off the back with extra weight on that, but traction and stopping on the hillside was still an issue, especially with a load in the bucket. I had to drop the load in the loader more than once to save my bacon. My Kioti LB2204 with half the horsepower will do the work of the bigger MF204 using 3 point implements, lift 95% of what it would with half the capacity, all because of the 4WD. Again this is mostly because of the slope, but it still helps on flat ground too. I will never, ever buy a tractor with a loader again that only has 2WD. Maybe if I moved to some flat land I'd change my mind. Long story short, if it's not in 4WD, it's basically useless to me, so it stays in 4WD all the time.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #78  
It depends on the work conditions.
If you're driving surface is solid, dry, or concrete, etc 2wd.
If you're driving surface is mud, wet, slippery/ icy, etc 4wd.
 
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   / 4WD and loader work #79  
Couple things:
1. A properly designed 4WD/front wheel drive assist axle should have a gear ratio and tire sized appropriately so that the front and rear wheel ground speed is as close as possible to the same. If not, this is just asking to snap drivetrain components and is a terrible design. Furthermore, if the design causes the front wheel ground speed to exceed the rear wheel ground speed, it will put all of the power to the front wheels while slipping the rears, which is not what you want considering that the front axle is typically a weaker link in the chain. So do the front wheels have a higher RPM? Yes. Do they do this to achieve the same ground speed as the bigger rear wheels that spin at a lower RPM? Also yes.
Not quite true for tractors with 4WD. For something that's going to be going down the road at 100MPH, yep, gotta be, or you will certainly cook the gear oil or the tires from heat. However, Kubota tractors, in particular the little ones, are designed so that the front wheels are trying to go 'faster' than the rear wheels. Differential gear ratio and tire size are chosen to give about a 2% lead IIRC, on the front wheels. Not just rotation because they're smaller, but they're intentionally designed so that the front wheels try to drag the back ones. Obviously this is not going to happen because the rear end of the tractor is heavier than the front end (except perhaps when there's a very heavy load in the bucket) and the back ones have a much larger footprint (traction). So why would you want the front end trying to go faster than the back end? Think about it. Going forward uphill, the front end is pawing at the ground to keep the front end pointed that way, in front. Keeping the front in front is always a good thing. Going forward downhill, the back end is dragging it's feet to keep the back end where it belongs, in the back, because the COG shifts forward (especially with a loaded bucket) giving the front tires increased traction. Even if you lose traction on the back end, you'd still have braking with 4WD because the front end is mechanically coupled to the rear in 4WD, and braking the back wheels will brake the front wheels. This is actually what gets some folks in trouble with a heavy load lifted too high. Braking with a lifted load is quite likely to put the tractor up on the front axle, at which point it will likely tilt to one side and shift all the weight to one front wheel until the pivot stops make contact with the axle housing. The result is a broken axle or a tractor laying on it's side, neither of which is an enjoyable event. On the FEL valve on the LX2610, there is a 'Float' position for the boom which is fully forward with the joystick. Forward for two reasons. 1, it's in the general direction the boom needs to go in an emergency. 2. If the tractor is in the process of tilting forward, you're going to automatically push the stick forward as you move forward in a panic reaction. This will drop the load like a stone. Better than turning over, though. NEVER, but NEVER try to back up a hill with a heavily loaded bucket lifted more than a couple inches off the ground. That will quickly test Darwin's Theory of Selectivity. As soon as possible, point the front of the tractor up the hill if you want to go up the hill.

Normal use in 4WD on soil is not going to significantly wear the tires. Turning it sharply on hard packed dry soil however is little different than doing the same on pavement. The LX will turn a LOT sharper than your turf will tolerate in 4WD, so if you're on the grass, make sure you're in 2WD unless you're creeping straight ahead. Turning sharply in 4WD generally causes a very pronounced hop on the front tire in the direction of the turn because it will try to out-run the one on the other side due to the increased speed on the rear one on the other side. I.E., if you turn left, the right rear wheel will turn faster, trying to make the left front turn faster. The left front will start chewing up whatever you're driving on or chewing the cleats off the tires, or the right front will start sliding if you're on slippery material or wet smooth pavement.

If you're spinning the rears, put it in 4WD. If you're moving material up or down slopes, put it in 4WD. If you're mowing the zoysia grass in the front yard, you've got the wrong machine, but put it in 2WD, UNLESS you have a steep grade in the front yard. Then, yes, put it in 4WD. If you're not spinning, not on a hill, on hard surface (pavement), going faster Low Range would let you go, put it in 2WD. If you need 4WD, you're better off in Low Range, too. DO NOT try to turn with the Dif Lock set. The back wheels need to be able to turn different speeds in order to change direction.

As for wear and tear on the gears, mechanical things break, eventually. Just accept that fact. How long before that happens is GENERALLY in your control based on how you operate and maintain the machine. But sometimes, bad things just happen. Defecation is happenstance.
 
   / 4WD and loader work #80  
This post to me is just plain not good! Nothing against the post but seems very odd. You buy a 4 wheel drive so you can use it? correct? I use mine with the bucket attached to work on everything i do loading rocks, wood, and dirt all the time! That is what is is for and you will not hurt anything in 4 wheel drive !!
 

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