4wd vs. 2wd

Robert_in_NY · Sep 6, 2003

Bird was right, Mechanical Front wheel drive. Some compact companies call it 4wd for marketing reasons as people can relate to 4wd easier then MFWD or FWA or any other way companies describe it. A true 4wd is all 4 wheels of the same size. Large articulated tractors are 4wd's and so are some smaller tractors like the JCB Fast tracs. Pickup trucks are 4wd because the tires are the same size again.

As for what the real difference is and why they can't just call them all 4wd is beyond me but oh well.

Slamfire · Sep 6, 2003

I remember those Firestone's Town and Country, "mud, ice or snow or we pay the tow". I had a '50 Ford pickup, with a sheet of 1/4" cold rolled plate for a bed. A big steel tool box full of big tools from my Dad's days as master mechanic on construction jobs. I can't remember how many of my friends and neighbors I pulled out of ditches with that little truck. I remember passing the snow plow on the way home from basketball games. I could drive it after 20" fell, and never got it stuck. The trick was never step on the clutch pedal, lost all traction when you did that.

fishstixtwo · Sep 6, 2003

I must not be a very good driver, the first 4WD truck that I ouned I had it stuck 45 minutes after leaving the lot. Tried to pull in my driveway, snow was only 5 ft. deep where the plow had dumped it. I have ouned 4WD trucks for the last 20 years tractor for a little over 1 year. I guess when you get right down to it I could get by with 2WD, But why would I want to???

pruntyc · Sep 6, 2003

That is what I used the town and country, they were good. Of course what people are not reading, is I drove for a living for a number of years. Different jobs, but they all had me driveing 200 to 250 miles a day, 2wd all year long, rain or snow or ice or sunshine. I probably drove more in a year than most people would drive in 10 years. When you do something enough you generaly get good at it. And if its in very hilly country, if you aren't good at it, someone else will be doing your job, who is good at it. I don't say the other people are not good drivers, but they haven't been where I have been or done what I have done. Just like I haven't done what they have done or been where they have. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

bgott · Sep 6, 2003

I have read that the reason they started calling front wheel assist MFWD was to differentiate front shaft driven wheels from John Deere's hydraulically driven setup. I've heard that JD's hydraulic setup was so bad that the whole concept could have died if people didn't know there was a difference.

Trev · Sep 7, 2003

( And they may tend to dig up your lawn a bit when in 4WD.
)

There is another aspect to consider about tearing up lawns. I drive a manual, and normally mow in 6th or 7th gear (out of 12) .. and of course the engine is revved up to PTO speed. If I let the clutch out a bit too fast, the rear tires spin a teeny bit when in 2wd. In 4wd, the tractor just takes off with no spinning and no damage to the lawn. My buddy next door even asks me to use 4wd when mowing their yard.

Admittedly, this isn't a compelling argument.. saying more about my lack of skill than the equipment capabilities, but it still may be a point worth considering.

I can't even imagine not having 4wd for my snow plowing, etc.

Bob

Soundguy · Sep 8, 2003

The 4wd on my NH 1920 only seems to eat grass when turning, as the fronts seem to lead the rears, etc.

Soundguy

Slamfire · Sep 8, 2003

Yes, the front wheels on 4wd actually go faster than the rears, otherwise you couldn't steer.

F350Lawman · Sep 9, 2003

First off, I PROVED 2 things today....

1. 4wd is better than 2wd
2. I'm an idiot

I was making the drainage ditch between my property and the road a little deeper today. It appears over the past 20 years (judging by the age of the buried beer cans I found /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif) the ditch has filled up with muck considerably. It is about 150' long about 6' wide and 3-4' deep. As I dug the ditch began to function as designed and began to fill with water. turning it into a mucky, sticky mess. I would dig in 4wd, make a pile above the ditch on the side of the road and then drive the tractor out and move the pile from the road onto my property. I would have to go into 2wd to travel on the paved road and bring this muck onto my property to spread in the woods.

I returned to the ditch and became really stuck. The tractor was down on the frame so bad the front end was trenching the ditch and the traction was almost zero. As I sunk the rear wheel went into a hole where I had removed a large rock. The FEL was also useless as it only sunk in the mud so I could not get a good enough curl/uncurl to crawl out. AFter about 5 minutes of all types of attempts it isn't getting any worse but it aint' getting any better either. SO, I am about eye level with the road and I climb off the tractor and out of the ditch (muck sucks off one shoe /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) and I go for the shovel. I figure before I get my truck and the cars driving by see me pulling my tractor free I'll try the tactfull approach. I get halfway to the shovel and bingo... a lightbulb goes off.. I never went back to 4wd! I return to the tractor, hit the lever and I'm out /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Between one good curl/uncurl and some reverse it crawled right out of the hole. this was nasty stuff, to be honest even with 4wd I wasn't sure about trying this job to start with once I got the water to start flowing/oozing into the ditch. My truck was only 50' away with plenty of straps so I went for it.

So there you have it, 4wd is better and I am an IDIOT /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I will try and snap some phoots of this mess tomorrow when I finish the job.

stvman · Sep 9, 2003

Don't be so hard on yourself at least you bought a MFWD tractor /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Libertine · Sep 9, 2003

BobG_in_VA:

One must alway look at what one is doing prior to saying what's "best". 

Amen.

I had a Farmall SC (earlier version of your Farmall 230) and never got it stuck, but was careful where it went. I mostly run in 2wd in the new one, but with the MFWD in backup I am less careful about muddy/slippery/hilly because I know I can get out easier. Actually, the diff lock is almost as useful as the MFWD. One weakness of the MFWD is there is no adjustment for the track on the front (can't make it wider). On the whole, I am glad I got the MFWD.

farmerpsv's talk of $6k extra for the MFWD on the TN is a bit off (from an accounting standpoint). The resale on his TN (others have mentioned resale without numbers) will probably be at least $3k more than if it was 2wd. Thus his REAL cost is only maybe $3k more to buy the MFWD. So, he credits cash (or his liability account if he is financing it) for the $6k extra while the tractor value account is $3k greater (M/L) and depreciation is $3k greater (M/L) than the 2wd. In other words, it doesn't really cost $6k to get the MFWD.

One must alway look at what one is doing prior to saying what's "best". 

Yes indeed.

JEH

fivestring · Sep 9, 2003

2wd is like bringing a knife to a gunfight, eh? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CTyler · Sep 9, 2003

This is just a general comment to those died in the wool 2wd lovers that don't need no stinkin 4WD.

My hats of to those 2WD drive guys that can realize thier limitations and stay within them. Good job!

Me I bought 4WD it just gets boxblading, digging and backing up hills, etc.. done faster than 2WD in the dry.
In the mud/muck I have to have 4WD, doesn't matter how good a driver you are, the traction just isn't there.

pruntyc · Sep 9, 2003

2. I'm an idiot
OK I won't argue with you. You said it, I didn't. I'm sure you must know yourself better than I do. lol /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

F350Lawman · Sep 9, 2003

Well, at least I'm not a TOTAL IDIOT. If I would have gotten my truck, hooked up the chains/straps and hauled the tractor out of there and only THEN had seen the selector in 2wd, that would have been the ultimate insult.

Or of course as some one else mentioned I could have neglected to get 4wd in the first place. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actually, with 2wd I wouldn't have gotten stuck because the job couldn't have been attempted. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well, it's back to the ditch...gotta go

Hambone · Sep 9, 2003

Don't forget pictures!

slowrev · Sep 9, 2003

Grimreaper,
Resale does not figure in for some of us. I buy tractors to keep not trade in every few years. Of course I realize it is a factor for those who do trade up on their tractors.

F350Lawman · Sep 9, 2003

Heres' a before/after photo. I don't know if you can judge the depth but you can see that it is barely wide enough for the tractor. This malkes it tough, if you lose traction there is no "good" stuff to slide over onto. Also the FEL takes up the entire ditch so if I hit a rock I can't get an angle on it, it's straight ahead or nothing. The mud is held together by roots and thatch so it doesn't want to let go, rather it rolls up like sod. oncew the roll egts too heavy for the FEL it's not fun! I have been using the prybal and shovel as much as the tractor to move boulders and roots.

It is VERY interesting getting the tractor into the ditch I nose down and lift the FEL so it clears the wall and then manuever CAREFULLY to get going in the right direction. Going in on an angle is tough with the slope and mud.

It is coming along and should be done by weeks end. After I add another drainage pipe it SHOULD help dry up part of my property.

Libertine · Sep 10, 2003

slowrev:

Yeah, I know. Lot's of folks have lots of money. Me, I keep a set of books to see (sorta) where I'm at. Whether I plan on keeping something or not.

It's my opinion (lot's might not agree) that it makes sense to keep a list what you've got, what you owe and what's left over that's yours and use that information to help you make purchasing decisions - such as what/how much tractor to buy (it doesn't have to be a full blown set of books to be worthwhile doing). The bottom line is whether what's left over is going up, or down, or . . .

When I wrote a check (tractor, extras, sales taxes etc) earlier this year for pushing $30k it's a major purchase - for me anyway. I am not planning to sell the tractor. But I didn't "spend" that amount. Only spent about $9k since cash assets went down, while equipment assets went up about 2/3 of what cash assets went down. The difference is the initial depreciation hit - unlike cars which depreciate to near 0, tractors hold up pretty well if taken care of. None of that relates to whether I plan on keeping the tractor the rest of my life, or, trading it in tomorrow. It does relate to keeping a handle on what your finances are and, at least to the point of this thread, whether to spend extra to get MFWD or stick with the 2wd. I was simply trying to make the point that the "cost" of MFWD is less than the actual difference in price.

I run into lot's of people who have no idea of where their finances are. Personally, I think that's a bit risky. But each person has to decide for themselves. Frankly, I am very conservative financially (I still believe gold is real money!) and that "ratios" are important. For example, I believe a conservative finanical ratio is approximately 25% of whatever you're worth should be liquid (cash or convertible to cash within 24 hrs), a maximum of 25% in consumer goods (such as house, car, etc.) and 50% in investment assets (things you own that you expect to bring in income/profit). If you maintain those ratios, or something approximating them, you are far less apt to run into financial problems. If you purchase a tractor solely to mow or use on your residential property, you are transferring liquid assets to a consumer good. On the other hand, if you expect to pick up some money with your tractor you are transferring assets from liquid to investment assets. I believe these "ratios" hold true whether you're worth $10k, or, 10 x $10k, or, 100 x $10k, or, 1,000 x $10k, or, whatever.

JEH

F350driver · Sep 12, 2003

Uh-Oh, I just bought a 2WD. I guess I'll do OK. My land is flat. Dad has an old MF50 to pull me out if I get stuck...So I guess I got 4WD but just 2 2WD tractors combined!

Send all your 2WD tips that you used before you saw the light and bough 4WD. There are still one or two of us 2WD users out there struggling to just get by...have a little compassion!

Jim
Farmtrac 60 (50 hp) with loader (2500#), bush hog (SQ72), box blade (6ft) and a BUNCH (homemade backhoe and farm implements) of other stuff I can borrow from Dad under the u break it u fix it rental program.