4x4 chains - front only

[Gordon Gould]

i was curious.... i had asked more then 1 dealer now about putting chains on the front of a 4wd tractor.. both dealers told me the same thing.. it was BAD for the tractor to hae chains on the front.. somethign about the front wheels not being designed for that.. idk..

has anybody else been told the same??

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

 

[BethesdaEC]

Last year I decided to go with the front chains on my JD2520 for several reasons. The front chains are cheaper (more on that later), lighter and I can throw a cinder block under the plow blade and jack the front up very easily which make mounting them very easy. Also with an angled plow it made sense to have the traction up front to counter the sideways plow forces. My thought on the driveline forces are I would run in 2WD unless I lost rear tractor in which case the driveline windup force would be irrelevant.

The downside to the front chains is that I did not realize that would need to buy front wheel spacers which as far as I can tell are made of gold. Each spacer was hundred bucks plus lug bolts and taxes came to $250.

The Baltimore area seems to have some sort of Teflon coating this year because the storms keep missing us. So far I have only had a couple of 2-3 storms to plow.

 

[kattywumpus]

I have been using front chains only for about two years, ever since I discovered that the front wheels would take the same size chains as my F-150. Learn to make do with what you have.

I have been thinking about this and am beginning to have some doubts. We have a common, private road which is asphalt and then a gravel driveway up to the house.

I am not worried about early bearing failure -- I can replace those. Here is what I am worried about:

The asphalt part of the drive is very steep, ands has steep drop-offs on one side or the other for maybe 1000 feet. We get only a few inches of snow, but it is usually very wet snow and is extremely slippery. If I keep the tractor in 4WD to have brakes on the front wheels, I am worried that a loss of traction on the rears will cause the tractor to skid sideways or even in a complete circle, which will inevitably dump it off one side of the road or the other.

Any comments on how to prevent this? Or is it even a realistic possibility?

A few times I had my tractor rear-end swing around some. This happen twice when the rear scraper blade caught an edge that had the same angle as the blade and I was on a gentle scope. Blade basically followed the edge an swing me around about 45 degree. The other time the front blade corner caught something and caused the tractor to swing a little (maybe 20 degree) and I was on a gentle scope too. Currently I only have chains on the front to prevent front end side slipping and rarely use 4x4 drive.

With the risks you face I would put chains on all the tires. I believe a life is worth more the any possible bearing you may need to replace in the future.

 

[FrankBenevento]

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

yes, this is exactly what i was told to..

 

[Jay4200]

The main service guy at my Kubota dealership told me that when in 4WD the front over drives the rear by 2% to 5% depending on tires and inflation. He said if I chain up the rear don't put chains on the front, let them slip.

The 4-wheel-chain concern is understood, and I do see their point due to differing wheel speeds, however I just don't believe it. There is no way that chained tires on snow/ice generate more traction then tires do on grass, dirt, or gravel. If the drive train isn't ruined during normal 4x4 operation, I don't buy that running 4 chains will create greater drive train strain. Hey, I'm a poet and don't even knowit.

It surely can't be worse than forgetting to take the tractor out of 4WD and driving onto asphalt or concrete, which I have done too.

JayC

 

[Jay4200]

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

In my case, the rears do the slipping. I can say that in 2WD, my tractor literally won't even move on a completely flat surface with the blower down. I do have a decent hill on my driveway, but it is not too terribly steep. My front wheels are doing 95% of the work while I am running the blower, and I don't think there is undue strain on anything at any time - it is a very low-impact activity. If I was dragging a tiller or a plow through soil, then I could see there being a potential issue using the fronts for traction, but just pushing the tractor and a blower over snow/ice...pthth.

JayC

 

[Gordon Gould]

The 4-wheel-chain concern is understood, and I do see their point due to differing wheel speeds, however I just don't believe it. There is no way that chained tires on snow/ice generate more traction then tires do on grass, dirt, or gravel. If the drive train isn't ruined during normal 4x4 operation, I don't buy that running 4 chains will create greater drive train strain. Hey, I'm a poet and don't even knowit.

It surely can't be worse than forgetting to take the tractor out of 4WD and driving onto asphalt or concrete, which I have done too.

JayC

Hey I'm just telling you what I was told, not what you should do. If you reread the rest of my post you will see that I also question the difference between 4WD doing road work on gravel and 4WD with 4 sets of chains on ice.
No matter what it is good to be aware of your machines mechanics however you use it.

 

[kattywumpus]

i was curious.... i had asked more then 1 dealer now about putting chains on the front of a 4wd tractor.. both dealers told me the same thing.. it was BAD for the tractor to hae chains on the front.. somethign about the front wheels not being designed for that.. idk..

has anybody else been told the same??

Unfortunately I think the dealers are being very general in their statement. Very likely they don't want to give the precise area of concern, which is turning with a 4x4 vehicle, in fear the customer will forget the details and blame them later. Except for true "all wheel" drive vehicle most 4x4 trucks and tractors can not compensate for the changes in axle rotation speed between the front and rear axles when cornering. I have seen this so many times were someone new to a 4x4 vehicle drive from a snowy street in to a dry parking area like a parking garage. You can hear the drive train binding up and see the driver fighting with the steering wheel to make the vehicle turn.

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Unfortunately I think the dealers are being very general in their statement. Very likely they don't want to give the precise area of concern, which is turning with a 4x4 vehicle, in fear the customer will forget the details and blame them later. Except for true "all wheel" drive vehicle most 4x4 trucks and tractors can not compensate for the changes in axle rotation speed between the front and rear axles when cornering. I have seen this so many times were someone new to a 4x4 vehicle drive from a snowy street in to a dry parking area like a parking garage. You can hear the drive train binding up and see the driver fighting with the steering wheel to make the vehicle turn.

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

Is this what you think - or are you absolutely sure of this ? We are talking tractors here not motor vehicles on pavement.
I was told the front is pulling ahead of the rear going straight to maximize the benifit of 4WD in soft going. Again, I was told this I don't know it as a fact.
Where is a Kubota guy to help us out here.

 

[SPYDERLK]

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

Is this what you think - or are you absolutely sure of this ? We are talking tractors here not motor vehicles on pavement.
I was told the front is pulling ahead of the rear going straight to maximize the benifit of 4WD in soft going. Again, I was told this I don't know it as a fact.
Where is a Kubota guy to help us out here.

Possibly he is sure, but he is wrong about that part. For normal proper setup of a 4wd the fronts lead a few % -- they are always scratching a little bit when going straight. This makes for good handling and responsive steering since the fronts pull in the direction turned for gradual turns and as turning sharpens they come to a neutral condition where all tires are pulling evenly ... sharper still and the backs start pushing the fronts and thats not as good for steering. If the ratio starts out neutral at straight the pushing starts immediately as you turn ... not as good.
larry

 

[RickB]

Unfortunately I think the dealers are being very general in their statement. Very likely they don't want to give the precise area of concern

Most dealers who opine on this topic speak from the experience of profiting from their customer's misfortune. The precise "area of concern" is shock loading caused by front and rear wheels spinning and a front chain cross-chain grabbing a frozen, fixed object and shocking the front axle driveline which typically CAN shell the bolts holding the front ring gear to the differential carrier, snap the front pinion shaft, or if one is lucky, split the front driveshaft coupler. Will this type of damage happen to every user of front-only chains? No. But it does happen. It's all about how lucky one feels and how impressed one is with his or her operating skills. And as I stated in a different thread on this topic, tractor brand is immaterial.

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex.

You would be wrong in making that statement. Almost all MFD axles lead by 1-5% and a very few lag by the same percentage range.

 

[dave1949]

Most dealers who opine on this topic speak from the experience of profiting from their customer's misfortune. The precise "area of concern" is shock loading caused by front and rear wheels spinning and a front chain cross-chain grabbing a frozen, fixed object and shocking the front axle driveline which typically CAN shell the bolts holding the front ring gear to the differential carrier, snap the front pinion shaft, or if one is lucky, split the front driveshaft coupler. Will this type of damage happen to every user of front-only chains? No. But it does happen. It's all about how lucky one feels and how impressed one is with his or her operating skills. And as I stated in a different thread on this topic, tractor brand is immaterial.

Rick, I run very aggressive chains like ATGreen's pic on the rear. I use a much lighter sort of wimpy chain on the fronts for steering control. I operate in 2WD only, gravel drive. Am I risking something?

Thanks, Dave.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Thanks for the informed replies. The idea that shock loading on the front drive train is the big problem rather than unavoidable "windup" makes alot of sense.

 

[RickB]

Rick, I run very aggressive chains like ATGreen's pic on the rear. I use a much lighter sort of wimpy chain on the fronts for steering control. I operate in 2WD only, gravel drive. Am I risking something?

Thanks, Dave.

I would think not.

 

[dave1949]

I would think not.

Thanks, I wouldn't have thought so, but it's worth asking.
Dave.

 

[First one]

There seem to be just as many of you that run chain's on the front as not . I can see how they would help in steering and yes, more traction but at what cost?
Would anyone be honest to tell if you have had any problems or repairs do to using them? I feel that if you guys use them (and for how long)and have had no problems with your front ends ( tire wear?)then maybe its not that bad after all.

 

[k0ua]

There seem to be just as many of you that run chain's on the front as not . I can see how they would help in steering and yes, more traction but at what cost?
Would anyone be honest to tell if you have had any problems or repairs do to using them? I feel that if you guys use them (and for how long)and have had no problems with your front ends ( tire wear?)then maybe its not that bad after all.

I dont know if it is good or bad, but you asked, I ran chains on all 4 wheels all year long for 8 years and 202 hours on my B7500 doing mostly loader work and a little mowing. We have really steep hills here. I had not trouble with the front end, or any leaks. The tires were not loaded. I took them off the day the new tractor arrived, no excessive tire wear. I am not reccomending this, I am just telling you what I did.
James K0UA

 

[dex3361]

With the snow and ice we have had I have chains on both front and rear. I have field chains on the back and 2 link truck chains on the front. I would not run chains on the front only. I would think it would stress the front diff. Really don't have any thing other than gut instinct to base this on though.

 

[First one]

I dont know if it is good or bad, but you asked, I ran chains on all 4 wheels all year long for 8 years and 202 hours on my B7500 doing mostly loader work and a little mowing. We have really steep hills here. I had not trouble with the front end, or any leaks. The tires were not loaded. I took them off the day the new tractor arrived, no excessive tire wear. I am not reccomending this, I am just telling you what I did.
James K0UA

Koua,
Thanks for the input and being honest. It's this kinda info. that is going to let the rest of us know what we my expect if we try them. Hope to hear from more to try and get some feeling Good or Bad about this.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

I am worried that a loss of traction on the rears will cause the tractor to skid sideways or even in a complete circle, which will inevitably dump it off one side of the road or the other.

Any comments on how to prevent this? Or is it even a realistic possibility?

YES!
We had a guy on a John Deere get killed in something similar 2 years ago, one reason why I will not plow the neighbors steep paved driveway with only the BX and not the GL3130.

Story from local paper.
Eugene man dies in tractor accident

David Kb7uns