4x4 chains - front only

[Gordon Gould]

i was curious.... i had asked more then 1 dealer now about putting chains on the front of a 4wd tractor.. both dealers told me the same thing.. it was BAD for the tractor to hae chains on the front.. somethign about the front wheels not being designed for that.. idk..

has anybody else been told the same??

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

 

[BethesdaEC]

Last year I decided to go with the front chains on my JD2520 for several reasons. The front chains are cheaper (more on that later), lighter and I can throw a cinder block under the plow blade and jack the front up very easily which make mounting them very easy. Also with an angled plow it made sense to have the traction up front to counter the sideways plow forces. My thought on the driveline forces are I would run in 2WD unless I lost rear tractor in which case the driveline windup force would be irrelevant.

The downside to the front chains is that I did not realize that would need to buy front wheel spacers which as far as I can tell are made of gold. Each spacer was hundred bucks plus lug bolts and taxes came to $250.

The Baltimore area seems to have some sort of Teflon coating this year because the storms keep missing us. So far I have only had a couple of 2-3 storms to plow.

 

[kattywumpus]

I have been using front chains only for about two years, ever since I discovered that the front wheels would take the same size chains as my F-150. Learn to make do with what you have.

I have been thinking about this and am beginning to have some doubts. We have a common, private road which is asphalt and then a gravel driveway up to the house.

I am not worried about early bearing failure -- I can replace those. Here is what I am worried about:

The asphalt part of the drive is very steep, ands has steep drop-offs on one side or the other for maybe 1000 feet. We get only a few inches of snow, but it is usually very wet snow and is extremely slippery. If I keep the tractor in 4WD to have brakes on the front wheels, I am worried that a loss of traction on the rears will cause the tractor to skid sideways or even in a complete circle, which will inevitably dump it off one side of the road or the other.

Any comments on how to prevent this? Or is it even a realistic possibility?

A few times I had my tractor rear-end swing around some. This happen twice when the rear scraper blade caught an edge that had the same angle as the blade and I was on a gentle scope. Blade basically followed the edge an swing me around about 45 degree. The other time the front blade corner caught something and caused the tractor to swing a little (maybe 20 degree) and I was on a gentle scope too. Currently I only have chains on the front to prevent front end side slipping and rarely use 4x4 drive.

With the risks you face I would put chains on all the tires. I believe a life is worth more the any possible bearing you may need to replace in the future.

 

[FrankBenevento]

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

yes, this is exactly what i was told to..

 

[Jay4200]

The main service guy at my Kubota dealership told me that when in 4WD the front over drives the rear by 2% to 5% depending on tires and inflation. He said if I chain up the rear don't put chains on the front, let them slip.

The 4-wheel-chain concern is understood, and I do see their point due to differing wheel speeds, however I just don't believe it. There is no way that chained tires on snow/ice generate more traction then tires do on grass, dirt, or gravel. If the drive train isn't ruined during normal 4x4 operation, I don't buy that running 4 chains will create greater drive train strain. Hey, I'm a poet and don't even knowit.

It surely can't be worse than forgetting to take the tractor out of 4WD and driving onto asphalt or concrete, which I have done too.

JayC

 

[Jay4200]

Yes I have. I was told the fronts over drive ( or try to travel faster than ) the rears in 4WD by 2% to 5%. So it is best to let them slip so the difference in rotational speed won't put lots of stress in the drive chain.

In my case, the rears do the slipping. I can say that in 2WD, my tractor literally won't even move on a completely flat surface with the blower down. I do have a decent hill on my driveway, but it is not too terribly steep. My front wheels are doing 95% of the work while I am running the blower, and I don't think there is undue strain on anything at any time - it is a very low-impact activity. If I was dragging a tiller or a plow through soil, then I could see there being a potential issue using the fronts for traction, but just pushing the tractor and a blower over snow/ice...pthth.

JayC

 

[Gordon Gould]

The 4-wheel-chain concern is understood, and I do see their point due to differing wheel speeds, however I just don't believe it. There is no way that chained tires on snow/ice generate more traction then tires do on grass, dirt, or gravel. If the drive train isn't ruined during normal 4x4 operation, I don't buy that running 4 chains will create greater drive train strain. Hey, I'm a poet and don't even knowit.

It surely can't be worse than forgetting to take the tractor out of 4WD and driving onto asphalt or concrete, which I have done too.

JayC

Hey I'm just telling you what I was told, not what you should do. If you reread the rest of my post you will see that I also question the difference between 4WD doing road work on gravel and 4WD with 4 sets of chains on ice.
No matter what it is good to be aware of your machines mechanics however you use it.

 

[kattywumpus]

i was curious.... i had asked more then 1 dealer now about putting chains on the front of a 4wd tractor.. both dealers told me the same thing.. it was BAD for the tractor to hae chains on the front.. somethign about the front wheels not being designed for that.. idk..

has anybody else been told the same??

Unfortunately I think the dealers are being very general in their statement. Very likely they don't want to give the precise area of concern, which is turning with a 4x4 vehicle, in fear the customer will forget the details and blame them later. Except for true "all wheel" drive vehicle most 4x4 trucks and tractors can not compensate for the changes in axle rotation speed between the front and rear axles when cornering. I have seen this so many times were someone new to a 4x4 vehicle drive from a snowy street in to a dry parking area like a parking garage. You can hear the drive train binding up and see the driver fighting with the steering wheel to make the vehicle turn.

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Unfortunately I think the dealers are being very general in their statement. Very likely they don't want to give the precise area of concern, which is turning with a 4x4 vehicle, in fear the customer will forget the details and blame them later. Except for true "all wheel" drive vehicle most 4x4 trucks and tractors can not compensate for the changes in axle rotation speed between the front and rear axles when cornering. I have seen this so many times were someone new to a 4x4 vehicle drive from a snowy street in to a dry parking area like a parking garage. You can hear the drive train binding up and see the driver fighting with the steering wheel to make the vehicle turn.

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

Is this what you think - or are you absolutely sure of this ? We are talking tractors here not motor vehicles on pavement.
I was told the front is pulling ahead of the rear going straight to maximize the benifit of 4WD in soft going. Again, I was told this I don't know it as a fact.
Where is a Kubota guy to help us out here.

 

[SPYDERLK]

A properly design 4x4 drive train will have no speed different between the front and rear axles when going straight, and any micro speed different (like 0.01 %) will be compensate in tire flex. You can drive all day on pavement in 4x4 as long as you go straight, but cornering is a different issue and when the damage normally occurs. I really think the chains on the front tire statement is more of a CYA, since the dealer can not predict how you will operate the tractor.

Is this what you think - or are you absolutely sure of this ? We are talking tractors here not motor vehicles on pavement.
I was told the front is pulling ahead of the rear going straight to maximize the benifit of 4WD in soft going. Again, I was told this I don't know it as a fact.
Where is a Kubota guy to help us out here.

Possibly he is sure, but he is wrong about that part. For normal proper setup of a 4wd the fronts lead a few % -- they are always scratching a little bit when going straight. This makes for good handling and responsive steering since the fronts pull in the direction turned for gradual turns and as turning sharpens they come to a neutral condition where all tires are pulling evenly ... sharper still and the backs start pushing the fronts and thats not as good for steering. If the ratio starts out neutral at straight the pushing starts immediately as you turn ... not as good.
larry