7.3L Powerstroke or 5.9L Cummins with over 200k miles -- still lots of life, or not?

[dwhite]

My 2 cents are: for your light towing and limited miles per year, get a gas. I would recommend you look at the Chevy 1500HD. I also wanted a diesel and had similar needs as you. I bought a '01 7.3 Powerstroke Supercab with 135K miles for just about 10K. Buying used, you have to update all the maintenance since you have no idea what has been done. That adds $1000 at least. Diesels are expensive to maintain and fix. I then cracked the oil pan on a rock (that I had driven over multiple times before) and that cost $1500 to repair because the cab and engine had to be lifted. Just an oil change is 15 quarts. The costs mounted. The truck had a turning radius of a school bus. The back "seat" was too small for my kids carseats. The truck drove like a lawn mower: high center of gravity, no suspension, steering is cagey. I sold it for about even (not counting the oil pan since that was my fault.) Like someone said, the rear main seal was oozing.

The 1500HD drives soooo much nicer, has the crew cab, push button 4wd and auto 4wd. It has the 6L that tows great, especially for your needs. The tow rating is 10K. Gas mileage is better than the 7.3. So do yourself a favor and at least look at this truck. They are a little hard to find. I got mine on eBay for $10K, 2001 with 113k miles. The fuel savings on diesels are only applicable if you drive mega miles and tow > 8000.

 

[WH401]

My 2 cents are: for your light towing and limited miles per year, get a gas. I would recommend you look at the Chevy 1500HD. I also wanted a diesel and had similar needs as you. I bought a '01 7.3 Powerstroke Supercab with 135K miles for just about 10K. Buying used, you have to update all the maintenance since you have no idea what has been done. That adds $1000 at least. Diesels are expensive to maintain and fix. I then cracked the oil pan on a rock (that I had driven over multiple times before) and that cost $1500 to repair because the cab and engine had to be lifted. Just an oil change is 15 quarts. The costs mounted. The truck had a turning radius of a school bus. The back "seat" was too small for my kids carseats. The truck drove like a lawn mower: high center of gravity, no suspension, steering is cagey. I sold it for about even (not counting the oil pan since that was my fault.) Like someone said, the rear main seal was oozing.

The 1500HD drives soooo much nicer, has the crew cab, push button 4wd and auto 4wd. It has the 6L that tows great, especially for your needs. The tow rating is 10K. Gas mileage is better than the 7.3. So do yourself a favor and at least look at this truck. They are a little hard to find. I got mine on eBay for $10K, 2001 with 113k miles. The fuel savings on diesels are only applicable if you drive mega miles and tow > 8000.

Doesn't sound like you have a gripe with diesel vs. gas, sounds like you just didn't like the Ford as much as you do the Chevy. Most of those issues are more confined to a certain brand rather than type of engine.

BTW, did you even read the past 6 pages before you posted?

 

[devildog1]

WH401,
Couldn't have said it any better!!!
DevilDog

 

[Dargo]

Doesn't sound like you have a gripe with diesel vs. gas, sounds like you just didn't like the Ford as much as you do the Chevy. Most of those issues are more confined to a certain brand rather than type of engine.

BTW, did you even read the past 6 pages before you posted?

I just posted in another thread that I need to get another truck for towing. I drove the new GM offerings (3 different trucks) and walked away realizing why GM went bankrupt. I am extremely disappointed with the current GM trucks. They definitely would be my last choice. My father and grandfather were diehard GM owners. Any other brand was a dirty word. After having a multitude of issues with GM trucks I bought a Dodge and loved it. I drove it 10 years with no issues. When I was ready for another truck at that time, I drove Dodge, GM and Ford trucks and decided I liked the Ford truck the best and bought one. It's been great. If someone thinks the crew cab of a GM truck has more room than a Ford, I don't know what to tell them. Measurements don't lie. Ride and drive are subjective. I strongly prefer Ford and Dodge trucks over GM offerings at this time.

 

[jcmseven]

Dargo,

While I respect your opinion and expertise, I would have to disagree with your assessment. I am a Ford man, have always owned Ford trucks and still hold them in high regard. I have never owned a Dodge, but have many family members and friends who do, and they like them (I have nothing against them--just the ones I have driven have not had much pep--they were stock or mildly modified though). With some skepticism but a desire to buy a diesel 4x4 truck that would fit in the low-hanging parking deck at my work (which my 2008 Ford 250 would not) and would be a reasonable daily driver which could tow heavy when needed. I bought a 2009 GMC SLT 2500. It has been the most enjoyable truck to drive and operate I have owned so far. It is faster than my Ford, gets better mileage, is more comfortable, pulls better, is more quiet, and has better creature features for the wife and kids. My dealer, who I have seen mainly for routine service and the development of a small rattle which was repaired under warranty, is by far nicer and more helpful and efficient than any of the Ford dealers I have dealt with--and I knew them socially!! That said, I do think there are some features my Ford had that my GMC does not and also some situations where I felt my Ford performed better--just not many of them. There also seems to be some variability in build quality among these GM vehicles (interestingly seemingly more with the Chevy's than the GMC's it seems) and performance. My good friend at work has a 2007 GMC 2500 that looks and is spec'd similar to mine. He gets, on average 3 MPG less than I do on the highway despite being a more-conservative driver than I and his truck is nowhere near as fast. I drive about 30-40K per year and already have 15,000 on my truck which was purchased in May, 2009. My only explanation is that perhaps you might not have driven a 2500 (I did not read whether it was a 1500 or a gasser 2500, etc. that you drove) or perhaps you were exposed to some "bad apples" but so far there is not much comparison between my 250 and this rig--and you do not know how much it pains me to say that. I will say I think Ford still has the obvious edge in the larger dually pickups, from a GVWR perspective anyway.

John M

 

[chrisreedtn]

I have an 01 F250 with 230K, It starts at 5 am and doesnt usually get turned off till I get home at 5or6, I drive 3-8 hours a day, and change my oil every other month at 10k miles.

If your looking for a truck just look on a jobsite. Most are fords, its for a reason. I know of several with over a million miles on them. Every one I know that has a dodge has all sorts of problems. (well, anyone that puts miles on them anyways). Dont get me wrong, the cummins is a great motor, If I see a ISX at a good price, It will be in my truck. But I wouldnt buy a dodge for it.

 

[jas67]

I new I'd stir up a hornets nest with this one

 

[jcmseven]

jas67,

True, but actually this thread has been pretty good, all in all. For example, I do not agree with Dargo's assessment this time, but he and I usually do agree and I know he has some good points. Each brand, truth is and I know you know already, has its own advantages and disadvantages. Each also has components that suit a given buyer at a certain time. For example, the type truck for which I was looking most recently is very different from that which I might have needed two or three years ago. I would probably still be driving my Ford 2008 250 if I had not changed jobs. This promoted a chance to look at something different, and I am glad I did. I could not be more pleased with my purchase. You will like your purchase. Much of what has been maligned about the 6.0L engine in the Ford of your generation truck was based on the 2003 and 2004 model years and the fact that Ford handled warranty work poorly by blaming the customer and not conceding that it was due to engine design and manufacturing issues of which they knew. Sure, we will always have someone pop up saying that they had an '05 or '06 truck that had the worst engine ever or that they had a 2003 model that was perfect, but these are rare examples at best and usually make "print time." Your truck will be fine and I am glad you asked this opinion of the group. I think you bought a fine truck that will serve you well.

Chris, I agree with you about Fords populating jobsites, etc. I have always been a Ford man and was nearly disowned when I bought a "non-Ford." (My dad still cannot bring himself to say the actual brand name of what I bought). I will look at Fords again when time to buy another truck, but I would say the popularity of Ford trucks is based on many things, some of which I do not understand fully. I will, though, say there are many people out there like me who just knew it was time to get another Ford when it was time to buy another truck. They simply had never driven anything else. Even my local Ford dealer, a family friend, said "You don't want to buy a GM truck. The transmission is OK but with that J-- C--- engine and the rest of it, you won't be happy." When I finally bought one and not a Ford this time, he admitted to me later that he liked the GMC truck look and that he had actually never DRIVEN one to compare, only read manufacturer promotion literature and through his customers' feedback. I let him drive my new truck and he said not to tell anyone how well it drove and performed when he returned. We see this a lot here and I am sure you do as well in your locale. I looked in a different direction this time and am glad I did. I loved my 250 and have owned over 10 Ford P/u's in my driving life personally, plus have been exposed to many more with my dad's business, etc. Save one, they have been good trucks with little to complain about. One big reason I and others have gone with Ford over the years is the ability to find a truck often without having to resort to ordering it and being able to find a configuration platform one needs quickly. Ford just simply does a better job in stocking trucks than do GM or Dodge--in multiple permutations. This is but one of many reasons Ford is so popular; but interestingly, does not have much to do with their quality or performance. I like my Fords but now realize taking a serious look at each brand when buying is probably the smarter idea. The truth is all the big three make really good trucks now and one would have to try pretty hard to be unhappy with his or HER choice in a truck (this is in an attempt to be gender-friendly and is in honor of one of my other co-workers--a 4'11" fine female physician with whom I work who is from Aberdeen, Scotland originally and now wheels into the lot in her new Dodge 2500 P/U--with the Cummins I might add--which she bought to replace her--------Audi Coupe TT. Go figure. She was asking me about the Jacobs brake just last week.

John M

 

[WH401]

I have an 01 F250 with 230K, It starts at 5 am and doesnt usually get turned off till I get home at 5or6, I drive 3-8 hours a day, and change my oil every other month at 10k miles.

If your looking for a truck just look on a jobsite. Most are fords, its for a reason. I know of several with over a million miles on them. Every one I know that has a dodge has all sorts of problems. (well, anyone that puts miles on them anyways). Dont get me wrong, the cummins is a great motor, If I see a ISX at a good price, It will be in my truck. But I wouldnt buy a dodge for it.

The reason you see more Fords on job sites is because Ford offers a better discount for fleet purchases. It hardly has anything to do with reliability as all of the big 3 make a good 3/4 - 1 ton product. Who has had good experience with what is usually different from another person, and everyone's concept of a "reliable" truck is different.

 

[Dargo]

I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with jcm disagreeing with me. I've admitted before that I own more GM stock than any other manufacturer's stock and still currently own 3 GM vehicles. My opinion is that Dodge and Ford trucks drive better than GM trucks. Unfortunately, I can line up all 3 GM vehicles I own from the oldest to the newest and can clearly point out how each newer model has had more shortcuts taken by GM and has lower quality fit and finish (not to mention lower quality materials) than the next older model. Besides my preference to the one ton dually Ford ride and drive over GM's offering, I personally feel that I can point out where GM took more shortcuts in the manufacturing of the trucks. However, if everyone felt as I do, my GM stock would have dropped to zero rather than down to just a buck a share. Okay, I'm feeling ill now....

 

[jas67]

Well, it is only day 6, and I already had a problem with this truck (please don't start a flame war against Ford because of this).

I've only owned the truck for 6 days. The first 5 days were great, now I'm a little scared (esp. given the bad rep that the 6.0L has).

This morning on the way to work, I got the "Check Guages" message. The oil pressure guage was showning 0 ('L') , so I parked it, and walked the 3.5 miles back home. After consulting with my nephew, who is a diesel tech for a local Ford dealership (who consulted with the other diesel techs), I removed the oil filter cap, and cranked it, and let it run for 15 seconds, and shut it off. This procecedure was to determine if the problem was the sensor, or the oil pressure regulator sticking (which, on the 6.0L, they apparently can). Well, it fill right up, and overflowed, so it seems that it has oil pressure.

Being cautious, I had it towed home anyway, I didn't want to kill my engine for want of a $45 tow charge. When I got it home, since it seems it has oil pressure, I pulled it into the garage, and was going to go buy a new sensor. NOW IT SHOWS NORMAL PRESSURE

So, what now?

I sent a text to my nephew, and am awaiting his call. I think I'm going to get it to him for diagnostics. Any thoughts on this? Anyone ever have problems with the oil pressure regulator on the 6.0L?

 

[Dargo]

If it's any consolation, when I first bought my truck it had an oil leak. I took it to a dealer to have it fixed and the day I got it back it still had an oil leak. (they obviously didn't fix it) I found a reputable dealer who had a ASE Master tech who only worked on diesel engines. He is the one who assured me that, after working on the 6.0 since day one in Ford pickups I shouldn't worry and they were good engines. After he fixed the oil leak (about a year ago), the truck has been great. I've upped the hp and have a youtube link to a 1/4 mile drag run with the 8170 pound truck which ran a 14.2 quarter mile. I've towed close to 20k pounds for nearly 12,000 miles since the oil leak was fixed as well. Not one single problem since.

If your truck is like mine, get the correct repair and you should be good to go. It sounds like a sending unit from what you describe. Here is my truck being babied YouTube - F350 4X4 crew cab dually 6.0 PSD 8170 pounds running 1/4 mile

 

[Bill_C]

There's a couple of possible solutions: a) you could get a real oil pressure gauge! (Maybe add a 3 gauge A-pillar mount and also add a boost and pyro gauge) b) merely replace the sensor (actually it's just a pressure switch) and hope for the best, or c) get a data logging setup (AutoEnginuity and a laptop or similar setup) There' s also some fancy computerized gauges that can let you select which parameter you want to see.


...BUT...

Here's one nice thing about these engines: the injectors need oil pressure to run. No oil pressure, the engine won't fire up. On my 7.3 (and i think it's the same for the 6.0) the high-pressure oil pump (HPOP) must produce 500 psi or the computer will not fire the injectors. So if your engine ran, you had oil and both oil pumps (the traditional low-pressure oil pump as well as the HPOP) were fine. (The low pressure pump, in addition to supplying lube to the traditional engine things like bearings, also supplies the oil to the HPOP which then raises its pressure even more to "power" the injectors.)

Your "gauge" gets its signal from a separate pressure switch. When the engine is off or jsut started up, the pressure is less than 7 psi (going from memory), the switch stays open, and no power goes to the gauge. The gauge reads "low". When oil pressure goes up, the switch closes, and the circuit is completed. The needle on the gauge moves...to a position that's just somewhere other than the other position. IT'S NOT A REAL GAUGE!!

Again, your engine ran, so you had oil and oil pressure.

I urge you to check out forums such as PowerstrokeNation.com or Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com There is a wealth of info there that will save you big bucks as well as helping solve problems like this.

 

[Diamondpilot]

You are lucky! No really the 6.0L is one smart engine and it has hydraulic injectors so with no oil pressure it will not open the injector to allow fuel in and that means no runnie!!!!

Its a smart design. It uses engine oil to open the injectors. This is the hydraulic part. This system can prevent many problems but it has also caused a few. The early engines had bad o-rings at the injectors allowing oil into the combustion chamber. The other problem was Rotella. It foamed along with some other oils and caused the injectors to open early or stick. The oil foaming issue has been solved. I can remember when I got my 04 it came with a paper that had approved oils. I then noticed a few months later that Rotella display had "Reformulated And Now Approved For The Ford 6.0L"

Anyway I think its a bad sensor or something simple like a loose wire. Just you plain bad luck. End result is if oil pressure is really lost it will not run because no fuel can get injected.

Chris

 

[Bill_C]

Oh, for anyone that has questions about the operation of the 7.3 or 6.0 engines, go here Diesel Technician Society and download the appropriate pdf. Yep, they're big files, but they are extremely informative (and free).

I cannot over-emphasize how helpful these "coffee table books" (as Ford calls them) are. They are truly a "must-read".

 

[chrisreedtn]

BILL C! Good to see some one else from TN, I am building the kroger up there on the gallatin/hermitage line.

I drive my green f250 up there every day from lewisburg..

 

[texasjohn]

I can only tell you that somewhat over a year ago I found a '97 F350 dually crew cab 7.3L on Craig's List for (after negotiation) $5K. It was in near mint condition, 320K miles, manual transmission, excellent maintenance, tool box and 100 gallon external tank included. So far, no problems, I drive it about once a week.

Am happy with it for the price, rear ratio such that it is built for very heavy pulling. I read a lot on TBN about various different pickups.... as seen below, there are numerous experiences and opinions. The individual pickup I found seemed to be a sweet spot for price, pulling power, reliability, and availability.....less than 2 miles away. Haven't seen another such vehicle on CL since.

 

[saltbranch]

I did not read all the replys, so this may be old news.
I like the prepowerstroke 7.3's, the powerstroke injectors are high dollar to replace. When Ford went PS, I went Dodge. At the time I was running oilfieild hotshot. My first 97 dodge went over 500k miles, but I had **** with the 5th gear/reverse nut stripping off. 1st 200k I replaced the nut 3 times, then there was a "fix" by a local tranny guy that worked. I had a 93 f350 that I traded in with close to 400k for the 97 Dodge. That old truck ran great. The Dodge got alot better MPG. Had an 01 dodge that I traded the 97 in on, ran it close to 300k before trading in on a 04 Dodge. The 01 and 04 Dodges, I had a driver in for the most part as I got hired in 2000 by a company I hauled for to run the shipping/recieving dept. The 97/01 and 04 pulled a 40' G/N.
The company runs Fords period, at the time I started they had 2 1999 F450's with the 7.3 PS, standard tranny.Both trucks were traded in @ around 150 k miles and we had several injectors replaced on each, the factory clutches kept popping out springs on the clutch plate, we went to Luke clutches with good results. Those 2 trucks were replaced with f650 with the 5.9 cummins/allison autos, 1 pulls a 48'drop deck the other has a 24' bed. Have a 145k on the 1 pulling the drop deck with no problems, the 24' bed truck is nearing 60 k with no problems.
We had 2 of the 04' F250's with the 6.0's,autos. 1 was junk and traded off, the other we still have with maybe 130k miles. In 05 we bought a f-450 with the 6.0/standard @ 134 k motor blew- 8200.00 for a new long block from Ford. I currently have 3 08' f250's with 5.4 gas/auto and an 08 6.4/auto diesel f250 to contend with. The 6.4 is a powerhouse but only gets 2-3 more MPGs than the gassers. Granted the largest load the trucks pull are on a 20' bumper pull loaded upto 8k.
If I had to chose between the PS and 5.9, I'd go 5.9 on my experience.



"$12k is about the max I want to spend, as this will not be a daily driver, and will only see 3k-5k miles per year. The CFO (SWMBO) would be happier if I spent less, but it can't be "ugly", or she won't ride in it."

If this the case I really would look at a gas truck, the worst thing you can do is let a diesel sit. It would be really hard to make the #'s in cost,mpg, and maintence to justify a diesel for that annual mileage estimation, IMHO. Chevy has about the cheapest gasser out there to replace parts on, thats what I am looking for a good deal on myself in a 3/4 ton. BTW, my daily driver is Toyota about to hit 250k, runs like a top. I like the dodge diesels, ford gassers, think the chevy gassers are cheaper to own, love my Yota wheelbaro.
JMHO.

 

[jas67]

I can only tell you that somewhat over a year ago I found a '97 F350 dually crew cab 7.3L on Craig's List for (after negotiation) $5K. It was in near mint condition, 320K miles, manual transmission, excellent maintenance, tool box and 100 gallon external tank included. So far, no problems, I drive it about once a week.

Wow! What a CL find!
100 Gallon tank!?!?!? For the truck's engine, or one of those for filling equipment?

My bladder can't last the range of the 30 gallon tank that's in the truck (and my wife and kid sure can't)

 

[Bill_C]

FWIW, the Powerstroke injectors have come down in price considerably. PowerStroke 7.3 Injectors for example. I'm saving up for a set of Stage 2's.....

Realistically, though, if the oil is changed regularly a set of injectors should be good for 300K miles or more IMHO....