A lot of water

[ByronBob]

Do you have a large yard where you could put a gravity drain in? I did that at my house and have no need for a sump pump anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[BigEddy]

This hits home. In September I got a call - "There's 6" of water in the basement". Been rebuilding ever since. I never want to go through this again, and hope no-one else will - so I'll share a few "learnings".

Setting- My house sits 150' away and 30' higher than my creek. My backyard slopes down towards the house, with a swale about 10' away to direct run-off around the end. When we moved in we had problems with the sump hose freezing, so, when I added my addition I added a daylight drain. In theory the daylight drain should be sufficient, but being nervous, I added a new sump and set the float so the pump comes on before the water flows on its own. So I have 2 separate pumps in 2 different pits, each exiting 4' below ground (so they don't freeze) and running 30' away from the house where they discharge into a Big O that runs 150' to my creek. At 50' from the house (and 10' lower than the footings), the Big O's from the footing drains and 2 downspouts connect in for the last 100' to the edge of the creek.

The problem: We had 5" of rain in 3 hours. The water was pouring over the gutters, as they were full, and it was all the downspouts could do to cope with it. The swale was flowing a Class 3 rapid. Class 5 in the creek.

The Result - the 2 downspouts plus the footings, plus the 2 sump pumps completely overwhelmed the 4" Big O running to the creek, and the water started to back-up. Add some grass and weeds growing over the end of the pipe, and a large amount of debris washing down the creek, and the pipe couldn't empty out. With the downspouts helping, the 50' of Big O back to the footings filled up, and then both pumps were just pumping water into the pipe so it could flow back around. One pump picked up a small stone and overloaded, which when combined with the other pump and a dehumidifier on the same circuit, tripped the breaker - and in less than 30 minutes I had an extra swimming pool. My wife was home, but in the time between when the kids went to school and she went downstairs, the water rose 6".

Things I changed:
I now have 3 runs of Big O to the creek - 1 for the footings, one for one sump pump, and another for the second pump and the downspouts.
Each sump pump is on its own circuit.
I have a water alarm installed.
In the event that all my pipes are plugged, I've plumbed in a pair of valves so I can direct the output from one sump pump directly out the wall of the house.
I've installed quick couplers on all the pumps in case I need to switch one out.
I have a gas pump as a backup.
I'll make a point of cleaning the end of the Big O annually.

But I don't have a GFCI on either of the pumps and at least one of them is a duplex outlet so I'm going to change that. And just for info, despite being 6" under water, the power bar for the kids computer (which was standing in the water) did not trip, and the computer was running until I flipped the breaker off. Glad I thought about it before I stepped off the last step in my sock feet!

Although it pales in comparison to what others have been through recently, I hope none of you ever has to go through what we did. It has been a ton of work we didn't need or want.

 

[Freds]

Thanks.

 

[sendero]

Lots of good info here about GFCIs and what they do. I understand completely why some would not want a GFCI on their pump - there is going to be current leakage because of the moisture where they are installed, period. If the pump is always switching off unbeknownst to you, that can be a problem.

OTOH, current leakage could be dangerous in certain situations. Nobody wants to put their family at risk of electrocution.

Somebody needs to make a GFCI with an audible (loud) alarm that kicks on whenever it breaks the circuit. At least then, you'd know the **** thing was off and not find out when there was a serious water problem /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[JackAB]

I too have a severe basement water problem. I have two sumps, one set higher than the first to turn on when the first pump fails or otherwise can't deal with all the water.

So far, so good. However, I will have a real problem when the power fails - which it does around here often - during heavy rains or snow melts. I've considered a battery backup but my sump is within 6 feet of open flames (furnace & water tank) and I've been told there is a danger from the batteries in that they emit gases which can explode. Do I have any other options? Are there batteries that don't emit the gases? Are there any type of syphon sumps that would work?

Thanks for your help.

 

[BigEddy]

I went the gas pump route. I have a suction pipe (1 1/2" ABS)permanently mounted into the sump hole, through the wall to a cap outside. In emergencies - I can hook up the gas pump to the pipe and fire it up. Takes a few minutes to pull a prime up the 6 ft to ground level, but it works. Only issue is at full throttle I can drain the sump in seconds and have to wait for it to refill. Gotta run at low speed and try to match the flow in and out.
Of course someone needs to be there to hook it up. They make water alarms with auto-dialers or that hook up to a security system - but I haven't gone that far yet.

 

[jpr62902]

Jack,

My gas furnace and water heater are within 10 -- 12' of my battery backup with no problems (In an enclosed, unventilated space, too). I've also had an open flame closer than that when soldering water lines.

Now, they do recommend a marine battery for these applications, and I don't know why. Maybe it's because they are safer for such indoor uses.

 

[JASTN70D]

You might want to look at a UPS (Uninterpretable power supply) like they use for computers. I am sure they would have something for you. Try http://apc.com/

 

[Freds]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You might want to look at a UPS (Uninterpretable power supply) )</font>
Am I interpreting this suggestion correctly /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[stevepio]

MArine batteries are part of the larger class of deep cycle batteries, which are designed to tolerate being fully discharged. Normal car "cranking" batteries have a poor tolerance for deep discharge. A gelled electrolyte (gel Cell) battery produces less gas than a liquid electrolyte battery but cannot be drained (or charged) at a high rate like a wet cell can. "optima" batteries are the best to be had, but BIG bucks. 2 points about UPS and battery pumps. Both need BIG batteries. For instance, if the pump draws 10 amps at load at 120v, you will need 100 amps of 12 volt in the UPS. Thats a BIG UPS and most regular UPS units won't start a motor under load. Second point is kind of the same about a 12 volt pump. A 12 volt, 10 amp pump will move 1/10th of the water of a 10 amp 120 volt pump.

Personally, I have one pump. My generator is wired right into the panel and starts itself when the power goes out. There is a float alarm in my sump hole, wired into a "24 hr live" circuit on my alarm system, so I get a call from central station if I'm not home to hear the alarm.