About Afghanistan

jdkid · Sep 20, 2001

Hi ya
yep the russians took a beating there .in fact most if not all people who have had wars in afghanistan have .in the air the west has it won but on the ground i don't know ...small groups ,self contained ie food/ water ,great cover ,already holding high ground ,know the area better than any map,been fight for years NOT training but seeing war for years ,alot haveing nothing to lose.ie fam killed in other wars/battles .look at the numbers 1,000,000 Vs 15,000 +50,000 battle scared .where in any other countrys history do you see odd's like that ??? and the one on the loseing end keeps on fighting ...i also see on the news in NZ that the FBI/CIA are finding all these other people in the USA and other countrys around the world makes ya wonder just how many are out there and do ya start a war in another country when the war could be primed to brake out at home ..the amount of planing that has gone in the the attacks etc etc has not happened over the last 2-3 weeks someone high up must have known something was going to happen ...
take care
JD Kid

ERNIEB · Sep 20, 2001

someone high up must have known something was going to happen 
There has been alot of talk about this around here. Evidently, they didn't. There appears to be a couple of reasons for this.
First, there has been a lack of communication, and a failure to share information among the agencies you mention. The INS knew about these people, but the FBI didn't request anything, and they didn't offer. The CIA knew about the groups, but didn't check with INS. And so on.
Also, all these agencies have under gone budget cuts, and have had other problems they were trying to solve.
In some cases, they have had their hands tied. Such as, the CIA was prevented from using criminals as informants. Sometimes these dregs are the only people who can infiltrate these cells.
The ball was dropped. It seems that now they are looking at the " how the ball was dropped". More productive than a lot of finger pointing. I firmly beleave a lesson was learned, and it will be corrected. But it was a very costly lesson.

Ernie

jdkid · Sep 21, 2001

Hi ya
yea i heard that and prez bush said today that there was going to be a new deparment to look into things better ..keep in mind we only get the high lights in NZ and the press can have there own boat to row at times ..
catch ya
JD Kid

ejb · Sep 21, 2001

Lets not forget that when the afhanies defeated the russians it was with the help and supplies of the US. We provided the training and weapons...needless to say, nobody is going to be supplying them this time. At least not any well equipped country. In other words they were successful because we helped them, and now they won't be getting the help.

TerryinMD · Sep 21, 2001

I wouldn't be too sure about the Afganies not getting supplied with modern arms. The DO have help from other sources. The trick will be to stop the supply. I wouldn't underestimate the fortitude of these people. Keep in mind what happened with the North Vietnamese.....

dmccarty · Sep 21, 2001

"Keep in mind what happened with the North Vietnamese....."

Until the end of the US envolvement in SE Asia the US did not even ATTEMPT to stop arms, fuel and other supplies from moving into North Vietnam. No work was done to stop the supplies moving across the border from China. Haiphong was not mined until Nixon played his "I might be a madman card". IF the US had cut the bridges, rail and road links with China as well as stopping all shipping into North Vietnam the war would have been entirely different. We NEVER did this. NEVER. Will the Taliban get supplies? Yes. But unless Russia or a neighboring state sides with the Taliban its going to be very difficult for them to get supplies. We are not talking about triple canopy jungle but exposed mountains. EVEN with the jungle terrain in SEAsia the US did a decent job of hindering supply movement. Some of the estimates at the time of the SEAsia war was that it would take only a small part of the supply stream moving from the north to south to supply the Viet Cong and NVA units. I think the number was well under 10% of the supply stream.

BUT that was a civil war. I don't think and I HOPE that Bush is not comtemplating an outright invasion of Afganistan. That would be stupid. I think there are going to be battalion and maybe regiment sized operations that move in quickly via helicopter or maybe airdrop. The units stay in place for hours or maybe days and then move off. There is no way the Taliban can respond to this kinda of war. We dont have to hold ground nor need to like the Soviets did. We just need to destory camps/bases/people and move out. It took the Taliban two days to get their rulers to Kabul. How are they going to move thousands of men in response to an airborne raid? They can't.

EVEN if they had the road/rail/air assests to move their forces that would require them to have the ability to deny the use of their air space to the US. Does anyone believe that the Taliban can prevent even a SMALL number of US planes from their airspace? I don't think so. Recent and current history/events show that the US and NATO have the ability to completely nullify very sophisticated and in depth air defense systems. I have yet to see any evidence that the Taliban has anything more than rudimetary air defense systems.

Since they can't stop aircraft the aircraft will pin their forces into place while the ground pounders do what they need to do. Just don't drop a little group of ground pounders amoung a big group of bad guys....

I don't worry about the fortitude of the Taliban. I'm only concerned about US resolve. If that holds, and I think it will for at least 3-4 years then much of these problems will have been resolved. The lack of US resolve and the tying of both of Uncle Sams hands behind his back by LBJ caused the loss in SE Asia.

I have heard reports that Afghanistan has two weeks of food. This food was supplied by relief agencies and once its gone its famine time. Not a real good situation. I heard that Afghanistan has 15 million people. I just looked up a reference and it said 25 million. Of that number roughly 5 million are refuges in other countries. So between 20-30 percent of the population has left. This is not a unified population its further fragmented amoung different ethnic groups. I don't think the comparison to SE Asia is even close for so many reasons.....

I'm hoping that as a result of all the mayhem that has occured and will occur that the Taliban will be overthrown and the Afghan people will finally have peace. Peace is the only thing they have gotten from the Taliban. Course that peace has a high price and is not real peaceful but its better than what they had prior to the Taliban.... /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Fort Bragg in NC has a high concentration of Special Forces units. Some of them our Pschological Warfare units. I hope they start work real soon.......

Later...
Dan McCarty

ERNIEB · Sep 21, 2001

The NVA was never a match for the U.S. forces, or even the Aussies, or ROK's for that matter. Even their great Tet offensive fizzeled and they lost every gain made. Their greatest advantage was that they could retreat into North Vietnam untouched. Am I the only one who remembers that when our troops were finally given the green light to pursue the enemy into Laos and Cambodia, the uproar it raised in this country. And meanwhile the VC using 2 to 6 man squads aimed at very select targets with the idea to demoralize and disrupt. They too were very willing to die to accomplish their mission.
In his speech last night, the most important thing the President said was, " you are with us, or you are with the terrorists". I take this to mean, that they will have no safe place to go. No place to lick their wounds, and plan new strategies. Any Nation who admits them, automatically becomes a target. If we have the convictions to carry thru on this, and with the help of our friends, this thing can be over in 2, 3 years tops.

Ernie

Alan L. · Sep 22, 2001

My biggest concern is that those in the Arab world that now say they support us will leave us high and dry for fear of making the other muslim countries angry. I just heard tonight that Saudi Arabia won't let us use their airfields this time. When it comes down to it, we can't trust ANYBODY in this region other than Israel.

Alan L., TX

woodstock · Sep 22, 2001

Loose Lips Sink Ships!

dmccarty,
Fort .............has a high concentration of Special Forces units. Some of them our Pschological Warfare units. I hope they start work real soon.......


Everyone please refrain from talking about such information. we don't know what wacko might be listening.

Winnipeg, Manitoba

2001 BX2200 (30 hrs)

ERNIEB · Sep 22, 2001

Alan, I don't know where you heard that at, but his was in Reuters story released today.
Another official on Friday confirmed a New York Times report that Air Force Lt. Gen. Charles Wald, commander of U.S. Central Command's air component, has moved from his usual base at Shaw Air Force Base, S.C., to an air operations center at Prince Sultan Air Base in Saudi Arabia. From there, he could plan and direct air attacks against Afghanistan and other possible targets in the region.
IMO, if the Saudis get their hands on bin Laden before we do, they'll chop his head off. And there won't be no long drawn out trial either.

Ernie