about to pull the trigger, lots of Qs on B7610

bsmith · Feb 26, 2005

First, I currently own a bx2200. Its decent at pulling a box blade, but the loader is a bit weak and traction on turfs is marginal. Don't get me wrong it's a great machine! The dealer doesn't have a 7610 in stock, but I'm willing to buy sight unseen because I've been so impressed with the bx.

I plan on pulling a box blade, 60 inch pulverizer, getting a loader, mowing my lawn, so again I'm looking at turfs.

Now for the questions, forgive me for asking so many, but if you can answer one or two or all I'd appreciate it,thanks in advance.

Will the 7610 be more tippy than the bx with the loader low, or will the center of gravity be about the same?

Will I get better traction with the 7610? Mainly concerned with being able to drive into a pile of dirt to fill the loader rather than taking a small bite and going in again and again. I know it depends on the material, but should it be easier to fill up with the 7610?

Will I be able to pull a 60 inch two roller pulverizer or should I get a 1 roller. If I get a 1 roller, do I just go over everything twice to get the same result.

Is the mower deck on the 7610 better than the bx? How much clearance with the deck up?

If I get a backhoe later does it have to be the kubota? Is it big enough to do work with? For instance, planting trees, or possibly running water lines into a house.

The price for 7610 with folding rops, 60 mmm, 352 loader, turfs is $14,950 minus $7,250 for my bx with loader, mower with 150 hours. Fair?

One final thing, I'm also looking at a 100 hour 2 yr old deere 4015 with loader and deck for $7,200 difference no warranty. Which would you buy?

Thanks again,
Bill in Iowa

Rolando · Feb 26, 2005

You haven't filled out your profile, so we don't know what kind of soil, terrain, amount of land to work, etc. The traction questions is difficult to respond to without some of this information.

You might want to think about bar tires as a compromise between turfs and Ags for more traction. Depending on your soil conditions, your lawn may do fine with them, but give you more traction in the dirt.

If you're concerned about the loader capacity, you might also want to consider the B7800, which has the stronger LA 402 FEL (about 30% more lift).

I'm not an expert, so I'll leave the rest to the wiser mind among us.

WayneW · Feb 26, 2005

Well, I have a B7610 and test drove a Bx. I can't comment on a detailed stability comparison between the two, however I don't have any problems with mine on my hilly property in Western Mass. You didn't fill out your profile, so I have no idea where you are or what type of terrain you have on your property.

I have the Bar/Turf Tires (which are slightly smaller than the R4 or Turfs) and have plenty of traction for what I use it for. Keep in mind that I don't believe that you'll get a ton more traction with turfs and a B7610 than you do now with turfs and your BX. Remember that the 2 are about the same weight, though the bigger tires will help. You'd probably be happier with R4s on the B7610. That should help a lot. With filled tires, the tires are considerably larger than a BX, thus more filling=more weight per tire. Also a R4 tread in much more aggressive then a BX turf (or even bar tire)

You also did not say how big your box blade is. With the BX I'll assume that it's a 4ft box. Which the B7610 should pull all over the place with no prob. (Mine is a 5ft, and as long as there aren't too many rocks or roots it pull it fine)

Seems to me that there is always a trade off between traction and tearing up the lawn. From many post here, some are happy with R4s on the lawn, as long as you take corners SLOW. I, mow like a madman, and even scuff the turf a bit with the bar/turfs. But I realize that's my own fault.

THe 4015 Deere sounds like a fantastic deal. Is it 4wd? Is it a hydro? If yes to both than that'd be a good buy.

Good luck with your decision. There are many B7510/7610 users here, so I'm sure you'll get many replies.

Bob_Skurka · Feb 26, 2005

As for filling up the front bucket easier, that is really a matter of technique combined with some other factors. For example, if the 2 buckets are of equal size, the heavier tractor would drive into the pile farther, all else being equal. But if the larger tractor has a larger bucket then it is possible that the longer cutting edge could yield essentially the same resistance for the bigger tractor so driving into the pile will yield the same results. Now if you learn to manipulate your bucket while driving in, and if you are also manipulating your HST pedal such that you have appropriate torque to the drive wheels, then you will get better results.

As for the tire choices, Rolando makes a good point. I use R4 "industrial" tires and find they don't tear up the grass yet provide greater traction than turfs. You don't want to mow in 4wd with R4 tires because they will tear the grass when you turn, but mowing isn't usually a 4wd activity.

As for the center of gravity, I don't know for sure, but I'd wager some money that the B7610 will have a higher center of gravity. Remember when using the FEL, you want to have appropriate weight on the rear of the machine for ballast/balance. You seem concerned about your lawn so you might not want to fluid fill the tires, but please understand that many manufacturers recommend both fluid fill or wheel weights PLUS the addition of a weight box when using a FEL.

You can use an aftermarket backhoe. I have a Great Bend brand for the B2910. I'm not a big fan of back hoes, I think most are too small to do any real work. I've found that I am better off renting a bigger unit and I can rent a track hoe (mini excavator) for about $150 from noon on Saturday to 8am Monday and get a lot more work done a lot faster than a little tractor mounted hoe. Track Hoe Picture

OrangeGuy · Feb 26, 2005

By my calculations, you can get a new tractor (2005 model) with a new warranty for $500 more than a used (2003 model) tractor. No brainer! Buy new!

OrangeGuy

WayneW · Feb 26, 2005

Sorry. I just realized that you stated the Deere was $7200 difference. The first time I read it I thought it was for $7200. That being said, I agree with Orangeguy. $500 for new w/warranty is a no brainer. I'm not sure, but I beleive the 4015 is a 18hp tractor also, not a 24hp one.

Bird · Feb 26, 2005

( Mainly concerned with being able to drive into a pile of dirt to fill the loader rather than taking a small bite and going in again and again )

I agree with Bob Skurka's comments on that topic. I think a lot of people (surely it wasn't just me) try to push too hard too fast into a pile of dirt hoping for a full bucket. And if you're anything like I was when new to that kind of work, you either stall the engine or spin the wheels and dig little holes in the ground. If you ease into the pile, simultaneously slowly curling and raising the bucket, it soon becomes pretty easy to get a bucketful.

Henro · Feb 26, 2005

Bsmith,

 minus $7,250 for my bx with loader, mower with 150 hours 

First off, I think you could get more than the trade in amount of $7,250 for a BX2200 with loader and MMM that only has 150 hours on it. I'd try to sell that privately if I were you.

 Will the 7610 be more tippy than the bx with the loader low, or will the center of gravity be about the same? 

I would like to think the center of gravity on my B2910 and BX2200 are about the same, but I can tell you they certainly do not FEEL the same. The BX feels (and I believe is) more stable and safe on a side slope. I don't know if it is, but it feels like it is. I would guess you may run into a similar situation with a 7610.

 If I get a backhoe later does it have to be the kubota? Is it big enough to do work with? For instance, planting trees, or possibly running water lines into a house.

I think Bob Skurka is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to small backhoe owners! There is no doubt that an excavator will out perform a small backhoe. But many of us have got great service from their small backhoes. Granted my B2910 takes the slightly larger (7.5' vs 6.5') hoe, but it really can do a lot of work. My last small project was 250 feet of trench, 42" deep, for a sewer line at my home.

You centainly without question can plant trees, dig trenches for water lines and so on. It will take longer than a larger machine, but doing it is not unpleasant. If someone offered me what I paid for my backhoe, I would not sell it.

 Will I get better traction with the 7610? 

I don't know, but I can tell you that my B2910 with R4s pulls A LOT better than my BX2200. The BX2200 has bar tires, with foam in the fronts and liquid in the rears. I would bet that the 7610 would pull/push better than the BX, but have no experience with the 7610.

Rolando's idea of possibly moving to the next step up, the B7800/B3030 is worth considering. The price difference is not too crazy, and you will get a real hard working tractor with more loader capacity and so on. But it might be a little large for finish mowing of a "fine show lawn", if that is a concern.

JimMorrissey · Feb 26, 2005

$7250 is definitely low for a BX with those hours. I got just under 10K for mine with 400 hours. Keep shopping.

Bob_Skurka · Feb 26, 2005

I think Bob Skurka is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to small backhoe owners! 

The understatement of the year.

bsmith · Feb 27, 2005

Hey, everyone, thanks for all of the info. Another dealer called with a price on a 7800 and now I think I'm going with the 7800 on monday.

He's selling it with loader, folding rops, turfs, 60 inch deck for $8,500 difference. I'd be saving $500 in sales tax by trading, so I'm getting the equivalent of $8,800 on mine and paying $16,800 for the new 7800.

Once again everyone, thanks for all the info!

Bill

bsmith · Feb 27, 2005

By the way, how do I edit my profile?
Can't seem to find the way.
Bill

Bird · Feb 27, 2005

( how do I edit my profile? )

Click on "My Home" at the top of the page, scroll down to "Personal information, email, password, etc." and click on "ediit" on the right side of the page, modify whatever you want, and click on "Submit" at the bottom of the page.

v8dave · Feb 28, 2005

Digging in a pile of dirt or gravel wasn't as straight forward as I thought it would be. Here are a few techniques that expand on Bob Skurka's explaination that I've learned after lots of reading and a little experimenting.

At first you drive up to a pile, "floor it" and plow right in with the bucket low. You drive in about a bucket's worth and then start to roll back the bucket back to fill the bucket to its capacity. At the same time you start lifting the bucket so you can clear the pile--all the while continuing to drive forward to keep the bucket filled.

Well, you can't do all this at the same time. What happens is the hydraulics will stall and you can't lift the bucket out of the pile. This means you don't get a full bucket load and you have to back up and attack it again.

You have to ease up on the forward motion because the tractor push on the pile will exceed the loader capacity. After a while you get the feel of how much to ease up on the power pedal as you penetrate the pile and you roll back and lift a bit sooner to scrape a load off the front of the pile instead of digging it out of the pile.

Easier said than done, but you get the idea. Scrape it off the front of the pile don't try to dig it out.

DanR67 · Feb 28, 2005

Bill -

I also can't comment on comparing my B7610 to anything - she's my first CUT.

Couple of extra things to chew on:

- Your profile says you have 1 acre - in my opinion, the B7610 (or B7800 for that matter) is pretty big for that sized lot. If we're talking mowing time - then it's less than 1/2 an hour with a 54" MMM. I mow my 2- 2.5 acres in @ 1 hour.

I guess I'm wondering what your BX2200 CAN'T do - that you're expecting to do / do faster with a larger CUT? (well - besides EVERYTHING going faster - what do you feel is your biggest need?)

- How tightly do you have to turn when mowing? I was really surprised how easily my B7610 maneuvers around with its' power steering. The HST makes 3-point turns quick & easy. I have R4 tires - without which I surely would have become stuck many times over in mud / snow / muck etc. - and as long as you don't have to make really sharp turns - they don't seem to bother the lawn too much. Since you plan on pulling the boxblade - I'd think the R4s would be preferrable to the turfs....

Since I wanted my wife to also feel comfortable mowing (she hasn't achieved this yet - I'm hogging all the seat time! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) - I felt the B7610 was *just right* in terms of "smallness" for mowing purposes - and "bigness" in terms of FEL power - I am very satisfied with the power of the LA 352 FEL .... you can check my signature for links to some pics of mostly "non-mowing" activities.

Hope that helps with your selection process!

Dan

Henro · Feb 28, 2005

- Your profile says you have 1 acre - 

Dan...that is something I did not pick up when I read the first post... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

For only 1 acre...I would probably be looking at adding one of those Woods backhoes to the back of the BX2200 if it were me.

No doubt in my mind that I would not want a B7800/B3030 size machine on one acre. Even on my 3.7 acres the larger tractor is almost getting too big now that the heavy work is mostly done here (It never will get THAT big, because I already have it. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ). I might settle on a B7510, if I HAD to have something larger than a BX. But probably nothing larger than a B7510.

Some menbers here do have larger B series tractors on an acre or less, so it is not out of the question. All depends on what one wants.

Bob Skurka often recomends renting something to do the occasional big jobs and matching tractor size to one's long term needs. I think this is good advice and myself, if I lost the tractors and place I have now, and ended up on an acre somewhere, I would probably settle for a BX23 ( unlike Bob, I personally NEED a backhoe /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Bill, when I replied in that post above, from your description I just imagined that you had a fair amount of property to deal with.

More is less sometimes...I can't believe I am saying this, but bigger is not always better...(ouch, that hurt! ) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dan has made some very good points.

frank_f15 · Feb 28, 2005

IF YOUR profile is correct and u have i acre, not sure you need to jump to a 7800, your problem with the fel might just be a technique problem. u don't just drive into the pile and then try to lift, that way u are trying to lift what is in the loader and everthing on top of it. go into the pile, slowly ,lifting and curling at the same time. This way you will have a full load or at least 90% load. just practice!

Killer_B · Mar 1, 2005

bsmith,

I also traded a BX2200 for a B7610. Some of your questions are answered in this thread.

Good luck.

Killer B7610

bsmith · Mar 7, 2005

Sorry I've been busy for a while..

I'll be using the 7800 for work aroung my jobsites and some finish work. Also have some lots in inventory that need to be mowed.

Actually the 2200 did a pretty good job for me, I just want to do it faster.

The 7800, loader, mower and a pulverizer is supposed to be here tomorrow. Just hope it's warm enough to move some dirt!

Thanks for all the info, guys.

Bill