AC Condensing Units

Tractor Seabee · Dec 24, 2019

Questions for all you TBN HVAC contractors/installers:

i have a new Lennox high end gas furnace with a 3 ton DX coil installed 2 years ago. Could not afford the contractor install of the companion condensing unit.

I was a HVAC Technician in my younger days and have kept up somewhat but not familiar with current practices in the trade. I still have a complete set of tools and equipment including a 2 stage vacuum pump and electronic leak detector. Over the years I have bailed out neighbors, friends, and family from time to time. I still have my Class 1-Universal EPA 608 Certification for purchasing refrigerant.

I cannot get a contractor to sell me the condensing unit and let me install ready for start up. Install is the major part of the quotes I have received. I can understand their stance due to liability and warranty issues. I have been looking on the internet and found two brands I can buy on line, prices are attractive. They are Goodman and Ducane made by Lennox, both in 16 SEER. So Questions?

-Are there other brands available for direct sales you would sell/install?
-What are your opinions on Goodman and Ducane? Reviews look pretty good.
-Any way to do this and maintain warranty? Not too concerned if product is reliable to begin with. Willing to stand behind my work. I realize there is lemons in any product line.

I have figured out the control interfaces with the Lennox furnace and thermostat.

So help me out Guys and Gals.

Ron

RNeumann · Dec 24, 2019

If you were a contractor you should be able to find a local wholesaler who will sell to you.....what type of store did you buy parts from back in the day? Wholesalers have been around for a few years.

Roadworthy · Dec 24, 2019

I have a Goodman unit as an after market replacement on my system. They are pretty common and hold up well.

Sigarms · Dec 24, 2019

I'm just curious as to what your existing AC outdoor unit is, how old is it, and how did a license HVAC contractor match the new indoor coil to the older outdoor straight AC unit?

Warranty is going to be very tricky depending on who you talk to as Ducane is made in SC, HOWEVER it goes as the same brand name under as I believe its a line under the "merit" series, perhaps "Airflow". The issue is even with a Ducane outdoor unit, the system may not be AHRI rated.

Generally, I will always ask for both the indoor and outdoor serial number to ensure the system is supposed to "play nice" with each other. Generally speaking, it's a easy loophole for the manufacturer to use to get out of a 10 year warranty if the system is not rated.

ray66v · Dec 24, 2019

My uncle is a HCAC contractor.

Lennox, Armstrong, Ducane and Concord are all manufactured by Allied equipment.

With Ducane and Concord, being the less expensive versions of the higher end Armstrong and Lennox units.

I have two Concord furnaces, and they are both identical inside as far as the mechanical aspect, to the Armstrong equivalent. Both are great units. Quiet, and trouble free. Unlike my previous Carrier junk. :thumbdown:

The Armstrong units had a heavier gauge metal case, and slightly more sound deadening. Neither of which is being missed at all, after saving a lot of money with the lower end branding.

I have also not replaced my outdoor unit because it was not that old, at the time. When it goes, I will not hesitate to use the Concord, or Ducane brands to replace it.

You could try getting an account with a local HVAC supplier. I just walked in one day, and told the local guys I was a remodeling contractor, and wanted an account. Bingo, they signed me up.

The stores are all slow right now, and may be more receptive to dealing with a stranger than usual, to get some cash flow. All they are going to do is say no. So, you really don't have much to lose.

Be advised, if you are not an "authorized installer", warranty issues can require some finagling. If the store won't go to bat for you, you may have to suck up to an authorized guy to help you out. The guys at the store probably know a guy who can help you out.

I have my Uncle, if I have any warranty problems. Which is 10 years on the Concord, if you qualify.

Most problems are going to be right off the bat, and the store will take care of that. You can save more than enough money doing it yourself, to make it worth the risk.

fried1765 · Dec 24, 2019

Roadworthy said:
I have a Goodman unit as an after market replacement on my system. They are pretty common and hold up well.

We have a Goodman as a replacement, for original.... ???
In an earlier house we had a Trane.
That was as loud as a train.

Sigarms · Dec 24, 2019

ray66v said:
My uncle is a HCAC contractor.

Lennox, Armstrong, Ducane and Concord are all manufactured by Allied equipment.

With Ducane and Concord, being the less expensive versions of the higher end Armstrong and Lennox units.

Allied Equipment is a subdivision of Lennox Industries.

Ironically enough, I actually toured Armstrong when they were made in Bellvue (sp?) Ohio and then shut the plant down after Lennox bought them out and they (Lennox International) had do deal with the union in Ohio.

Ducane use to be made in Blacksburg SC, then they combined with Armstrong whose facility is in Orangeburg SC (while their corp offices are in Columbia SC).

The cheap Lennox crap is made in Mexico. Ducane from what I remember still makes Airflow for Lennox.

I could be wrong, but currently the primary line Armsrtong still makes for Lennox is oil furnaces (Armstrong leads the US in oil furnace production at least in 2010.

Been a while since I've been to Lennox in the mid west and Armstrong in South Carolina, but Allied Equipment does not make the majority of Lennox equipment. That I know for a fact unless that has changed in the last 5-10 years.

Lennox has a much wider range of options. Armstrong is the red head step child in the same way Bryant is with Carrier to some extent,

clemsonfor · Dec 24, 2019

I have two Goodman 3.5 ton heat pumps. One is was lightly used for about 6 years. The other was our normal AC and been used since day one. Both were used as heat for about 2 to three seasons as a main heat source till I went to wood. Now they get almost zero use in the winter as heat pumps. These were both package units and 13 seer. On them I have replaced the fan start capacitor (maybe 6 years in) on the lesser used one and on the main one I have replaced the start run capacitor and the main contactor ( both this last summer). I did that work myself.

I have had both now 11 years.

For the price of the Goodman's I will buy and install another one when these units go. Not that I want that to happen but when it does I will.

jaxs · Dec 24, 2019

Goodman has been around for many years and I haven't seen or heard anything bad. I've installed 20 or 30 and serviced many others without noticing sub standard quality. Find an apartment house maintenance man that does hvac,buy him a six pack to buy unit from one of his suppliers. I wouldn't go to much effort or expense for the sake of warranty. If you were near DFW I'd buy it for you. Someone in your neighborhood will probly do the same.

Tractor Seabee · Dec 25, 2019

Sigarms said:
Allied Equipment is a subdivision of Lennox Industries.

Ironically enough, I actually toured Armstrong when they were made in Bellvue (sp?) Ohio and then shut the plant down after Lennox bought them out and they (Lennox International) had do deal with the union in Ohio.

Ducane use to be made in Blacksburg SC, then they combined with Armstrong whose facility is in Orangeburg SC (while their corp offices are in Columbia SC).

The cheap Lennox crap is made in Mexico. Ducane from what I remember still makes Airflow for Lennox.

I could be wrong, but currently the primary line Armsrtong still makes for Lennox is oil furnaces (Armstrong leads the US in oil furnace production at least in 2010.

Been a while since I've been to Lennox in the mid west and Armstrong in South Carolina, but Allied Equipment does not make the majority of Lennox equipment. That I know for a fact unless that has changed in the last 5-10 years.

Lennox has a much wider range of options. Armstrong is the red head step child in the same way Bryant is with Carrier to some extent,