actual repair cost by hour usage of skid crawler undercarriage

[burntside bob]

Has any one kept tract of what it cost to repair the undercarriage on their skid steer crawler?
I am looking at purchaging a used CAT 257 or ASV 70 or Bobcat T190.
I have read many posts but have not noticed any that give a review of what the parts (rubber tract, rollers, sprockets) cost divided by the hours of usage.
Any one have this data?
It may well be that its cheaper to rent these machines then to purchase one new or used, thats what I am trying to find out.
What are your thoughts?

 

[brain55]

I have quite a bit of experience with the Bobcat machines. Keep in mind this is with a large landscape contractor with operators that don't give a crap about the equipment or it's upkeep, your life expectancy will likely be better. T180's, T190's, and T300's, will all get about 1000-1200 hours out of the factory Bridgestone tracks. Then after that, they will get 600-800 hours per set. T180-190 tracks cost about $1200 each for aftermarket tracks about double that for the Bridgestones. I have been told that even the Bridgestones get a max of about 800 hours after the first set. I had 9 T180's, 1 T190, and 7 T300's that I maintained. All machines had well over 2000 hours and had not worn the sprockets enough for me to justify new sprockets so I don't have prices for those. They do start to have drive motor issues around 2000 hours. Mostly on the brake section, if you catch it when it first starts having a problem you can replace the brake discs and seals for about $1000 plus the labor. If you wipe out the whole motor they are about $2500 each. If you keep up on the maintenance you will start to see metal in the case drain filters and you can feel it in the controls.

I would say that the costs come down to how much you plan on using the machine. 2000 hours could be the lifetime of the machine for a casual user, or like in our case 2-3 years.

Brian

I would probably figure between $5 and $10 per hour for all maintenance costs, the variation being how much of the work you can do yourself versus the dealer.

 

[MFRED]

Most guys around here are going back to wheeled skidsteers and bolting on tracks when needed. The CAT's were having problems with the ASV undersections and the contractor's were footing the bill for the upgraded parts. One lot clearer had to put a $15,000 under side on. 2 months after paying off the machine. He isn't too happy with his either.
New boogies all the time, hoses just aren't in good spots for the drives, the upper Idler( I think) isnt greasable so that wears out quite often.
Keep in mind it's used in mud & harsh places. Coulda paid for a few sets of filled tires & rims though.

 

[Digdeep]

I have an ASV RC50 that has well over 2000hrs. I replaced the tracks and Sprocket Rollers at just last year. They were originals. I have also replaced three sets of rear idlers, one set of front, and three mid rollers. I haven't had any problems with my drive hoses, drive motors, etc. You can also buy an entire ASV undercarriage completely assembled for around $8500 including labor so if a CAT guy paid $15k, he got "jobbed" by his dealer. My cost would now be much lower since ASV went to all metal face seals in their undercarriages so you only replace the plastic wheel and not the hub. I would expect that my undercarriage costs have run me between $4-6 per hour in applications such as landscaping, cutting retaining walls, garage and driveway pads (gravel), snow removal, and some brush cutting. I used to sell Bobcats and have been very happy with my ASV.

 

[MFRED]

You can also buy an entire ASV undercarriage completely assembled for around $8500 including labor so if a CAT guy paid $15k, he got "jobbed" by his dealer.

I agree. But everything he or anyone else around here buys from CAT is usually about double. $15k for a pair, just to be clear.

For some reason he couldn't get ASV parts, he had to go directly to CAT.

Or the parts guy didn't do him a favor and sold him pieces instead of a cheaper assembly. I see that a lot with stuff.

"Cost Always Tripple" that's the way it goes. On the other hand, you can always get it, no matter how old. Just gotta pay.

 

[Digdeep]

You can also buy an entire ASV undercarriage completely assembled for around $8500 including labor so if a CAT guy paid $15k, he got "jobbed" by his dealer.

I agree. But everything he or anyone else around here buys from CAT is usually about double. $15k for a pair, just to be clear.

For some reason he couldn't get ASV parts, he had to go directly to CAT.

Or the parts guy didn't do him a favor and sold him pieces instead of a cheaper assembly. I see that a lot with stuff.

"Cost Always Tripple" that's the way it goes. On the other hand, you can always get it, no matter how old. Just gotta pay.

Yeah, for some reason the local CAT dealer here in WI is more expensive than the other brands as well. It's a shame, especially for the same parts. The price I was quoted for the undercarriage from the ASV dealer was for a completely assembled undecarriage that included both sides, tracks, rails, wheels, assembled sprockets, and outboard bearings. The only thing the package didn't include was the torsion axles and the drive motors and the drive motor housings. Otherwise, it was just slide it onto the axles, hook the drive motor hoses up, bolt the sprocket onto the drive motor and throw the tracks on. It is supposed to come shipped fully assembled sitting on the pallet. So your undercarriage cost would only be around $8.50 an hour if you changed out the whole undercarriage (which you wouldn't need to) every 1,000 hours.

 

[Tags]

I've got 1200hrs on my Cat 287B with the original tracks. I did replace about 6 boggie wheels and 3 idler wheels 2 years ago and had to replace the seals in 5 of the bogie tubes at the same time. I did it myself and it was no picnic, but it was the middle of winter and I could only imagine what my Prima-Donna Cat dealer woulda charged. The parts cost me around 1400 bucks and the machine is just about 5 years old, to me that isn't too bad. I am the only operator which makes a HUGE difference with these track machines, the way you turn, what you turn on, and what material you work on will ultimately determine the life of your tracks.

 

[20 20]

I'm not sure this question can really be answered??? each operator, usage, soil, ground is going to be different. I quess with all the above post you might come up with a rough idea?

 

[McCaskey]

I need to pull trigger on new tracks, machine has 1200 forrestry hours. They are going bald faster than me. The local ASV/Terex dealer is telling me the complete rebuild undercarriage is not available for my 2006 RC100.

From another post: Terex/ASV does offer an undercarrige rebuild package. Part # 0403-531. If you have major undercarriage repairs, particularily if the machine is in need of tracks also, the package may be the most cost effective long term solution.

Any guidance in purchasing Terex supplied tracks vs. aftermarket and undercarriage overhaul would be appreciated.

 

[20 20]

McCaskey; this won't help but I was considering getting an ASV, but the way they have been switched around it as made me think otherwise. It's a shame because for the most part they seem to be a good machine that can get the job done. From everything I have researched they seem to have the overall best performance in mud etc.

 

[Buck S]

Just to clairify. The Terex/ASV undercarriage package part # 0403-531, as found in the other post, does fit the 2006 model RC-100. This package is a direct bolt on for all RC-100, PT-100, and PT-100 Forestry machines. The up side is that it is a PT-100 Forestry spec build. Meaning it has all the PT-100 upgrades including all metal face seals, upgraded frame, new tracks, taper bearings, improved outboard bearing and seal, and is complete with new sprockets. This kit would bolt right into a 2006 RC not only replacing the undercariage, but improving it to 2010 PT-100 design specs.

If your dealer has any questions they can contact Terex service department, or me directly and we would be happy to assist in the undercarriage needs.

Thank you,
Buck

 

[ManAtArms]

Yeah, for some reason the local CAT dealer here in WI is more expensive than the other brands as well. It's a shame, especially for the same parts. The price I was quoted for the undercarriage from the ASV dealer was for a completely assembled undecarriage that included both sides, tracks, rails, wheels, assembled sprockets, and outboard bearings. The only thing the package didn't include was the torsion axles and the drive motors and the drive motor housings. Otherwise, it was just slide it onto the axles, hook the drive motor hoses up, bolt the sprocket onto the drive motor and throw the tracks on. It is supposed to come shipped fully assembled sitting on the pallet. So your undercarriage cost would only be around $8.50 an hour if you changed out the whole undercarriage (which you wouldn't need to) every 1,000 hours.

Digdeep,

I'm in the market for an ASV RC50 or RC60...is your RC50 pre 2005 or 2006+? I'm leaning towards pre-2005 to take advantage of the lower weight (I want to run turf tracks)...do you have any advice on how to check out a used machine to determine undercarraige condition?

Tx!

Mark

 

[Eagleview]

Have you thought of buying a 100 + hp 4x4 tractor and fitting a 3pl mulcher ? These running costs will break you . My TL100A New Holland tractor is 5 years old now and apart from staking some tyres , I have replaced the air and fuel filters a few times and that's it . It has never missed a beat and goes to work every day . I treat it terribly , constantly over loaded , one back wheel in the air often and I have never had a mechanical component off of it for repair . Spend some time on youtube and see if a tractor with a mulcher will do the type of work you have in mind . There is NO comparison between PTO horsepower and Hydraulic horsepower . A tractor is also WAY more versatile than a Skid Steer with the hundreds of attachments you can add .

 

[Digdeep]

Digdeep,

I'm in the market for an ASV RC50 or RC60...is your RC50 pre 2005 or 2006+? I'm leaning towards pre-2005 to take advantage of the lower weight (I want to run turf tracks)...do you have any advice on how to check out a used machine to determine undercarraige condition?

Tx!

Mark

Mine is the lighter one too. I think just over 5000lbs. I have the standard tracks, but I did get to run a PT60 with the turf tracks...it was unfriggin real how much traction the machine still had and how little damage it did to the turf. I just can't justify the cost for the amount of time I spend on grass. As far as undercarriage condition, I would recommend that you call ASV direct. I have things that I would look for, but they have two guys in the service department named Tim and Cam that are really helpful when you have a question. 218-327-3434. they used to have a 800 number, but it is no longer working. Good luck. the RC50 has exceeded all my expectations other than I wish it would lift more so I could unload sod pallets. Oh wello, you can't have everything.

 

[20 20]

Have you thought of buying a 100 + hp 4x4 tractor and fitting a 3pl mulcher ? These running costs will break you . My TL100A New Holland tractor is 5 years old now and apart from staking some tyres , I have replaced the air and fuel filters a few times and that's it . It has never missed a beat and goes to work every day . I treat it terribly , constantly over loaded , one back wheel in the air often and I have never had a mechanical component off of it for repair . Spend some time on youtube and see if a tractor with a mulcher will do the type of work you have in mind . There is NO comparison between PTO horsepower and Hydraulic horsepower . A tractor is also WAY more versatile than a Skid Steer with the hundreds of attachments you can add .

I have seen this debate a 100 times, I don't think a tractor-skid steer comparison is worth a lick. I have owned both and can say both have just as many attachments/usage as the next. they both are good in moving product etc. What it comes down to is personal usage and preference. I have let my tractor go and and really enjoy the skid steer especially in tight spots{which will definately beat a tractor}. If someone asks about a skid steer they should get advice about a skid steer, if they ask about a tractor same rule applies. Now if they ask for a comparison the best advice possible is use each and find out which one they feel most comfortable using for their style of operating and work.

 

[Bob Rooks]

I have seen this debate a 100 times, I don't think a tractor-skid steer comparison is worth a lick. I have owned both and can say both have just as many attachments/usage as the next. they both are good in moving product etc. What it comes down to is personal usage and preference. I have let my tractor go and and really enjoy the skid steer especially in tight spots{which will definately beat a tractor}. If someone asks about a skid steer they should get advice about a skid steer, if they ask about a tractor same rule applies. Now if they ask for a comparison the best advice possible is use each and find out which one they feel most comfortable using for their style of operating and work.

Apples and oranges. I say you can't really compare the two. There is no level playing field. Tracked tractors are far superior in flotation, traction, low ground pressure, and drawbar pull, while wheeled tractors exceed in speed, agility, and lower maintenance costs. Skid-steers fall somewhere in the wheeled tractor category (except for tires).

As 20-20 suggested, there are just about as many implements available for either type tractor. I depends how much time you want to spend looking back over your shoulder.

FWIW: 1 horsepower = 745.699872 watts, and it doesn't matter if it's gasoline, diesel, steam, or electric. "PTO" and "hydraulic" come from one of those sources.

 

[Eagleview]

I say again , there is no comparison between hydraulic horsepower and PTO horsepower . Once the cutter drum gets loaded up on a hydraulic mulcher the relief valve in the machines valve bank opens , oil flow and pressure drops and the drum stalls . When a PTO mulchers drum loads up , Black smoke comes out the tractors exhaust and full torque is applied to the drum . You cannot stall the drum unless you stall the engine .

And when I say a tractor is way more versatile than a skid steer , I was refering to a machine on a property , try plowing , cutting and bailing hay , mowing grass with a 14' Rhino or pulling a 10 ton feed out wagon with a skid steer . With the added advantage of being able to mulch trees and run a flail mower .

It is up to the OP to decide if it is of merrit to consider a tractor , not others .

 

[ManAtArms]

Mine is the lighter one too. I think just over 5000lbs. I have the standard tracks, but I did get to run a PT60 with the turf tracks...it was unfriggin real how much traction the machine still had and how little damage it did to the turf. I just can't justify the cost for the amount of time I spend on grass. As far as undercarriage condition, I would recommend that you call ASV direct. I have things that I would look for, but they have two guys in the service department named Tim and Cam that are really helpful when you have a question. 218-327-3434. they used to have a 800 number, but it is no longer working. Good luck. the RC50 has exceeded all my expectations other than I wish it would lift more so I could unload sod pallets. Oh wello, you can't have everything.

Digdeep,

I really appreciate the help...I'll give them a call tomorrow.

-Mark

 

[Bob Rooks]

I say again , there is no comparison between hydraulic horsepower and PTO horsepower. Once the cutter drum gets loaded up on a hydraulic mulcher the relief valve in the machines valve bank opens, oil flow and pressure drops and the drum stalls.
Hmm, I guess this fellow doesn't know that:YouTube - RockHound Skid Steer Flail Mulcher

When a PTO mulchers drum loads up, black smoke comes out the tractors exhaust and full torque is applied to the drum. You cannot stall the drum unless you stall the engine.
Hmm again. We all know by now that black smoke means you are lugging the engine, wasting fuel, and not operating efficiently. Not good.

And when I say a tractor is way more versatile than a skid steer , I was refering to a machine on a property , try plowing (assuming you mean harrow?) YouTube - HOJA DOZER, cutting and bailing hay , mowing grass with a 14' Rhino or pulling a 10 ton feed out wagon with a skid steer . With the added advantage of being able to mulch trees and run a flail mower.
It's all relative. A skid steer can pull/push any attachment a tractor can with all things being equal (horsepower and weight).

It is up to the OP to decide if it is of merrit to consider a tractor , not others.
Very true. I am just reiterating my opinion and experience. Seems it was necessary.

Cat Challenger, which is kinda like a skid steer on steroids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ase2nUB9E_8

12345

 

[20 20]

Thanks for the post and videos Bob Rocks, I agree with you 100%, some folks just don't like to think/look outside the box, I was the same way at one time. I can only speak from my experience, and I can say my little skid steer is great in the woods{still need to get the OTT's}. The reason I like it more then the tractor is because it can turn on a dime and it is much more maneuverable. Plus the ease of operation compared to a tractor is nice, and in the winter plowing snow is also better. Again I am not trying to compare the two I don't think it can/should be done. For myself one machine is much better then the other, for someone else it may be the opposite.

Hey Bob Rocks, how did the OTT search turn out? Did you get them, if so how do you like them? I'm plainning on getting the steal ones, not so much for winter{chains work fine} but come spring I'll need them.