Adding Rear remotes

[glukowicz]

Yes I heard relief and I looked and PB plug is in. Today I removed hydraulic top link and it is fully extended. It will not compress to shortest length. I even tried with ratchet straps. So I believe valve is working but something is wrong with the top link. Any ideas?

I also installed this morning the pressure gauge at pump inlet of FEL and I can see pressures as I use FEL and 3 pt hitch.

 

[J_J]

This is just a double check. What pressure do you see when you activate the TIP cyl fully extended and held until the relief comes on? ?

On the remote, when you push the lever towards the valve body, that supply's fluid to the A work port, and when you pull the lever out of the valves body, you are using the B work port. Does the remote lever work any part of the T-N-T.

The hoses from the A1 and B1 work ports go to the Tip cyl. You may have A2,B2 for another spool.

How many work ports on your valve? Did you perhaps cross two of the hoses.

I believe work port A hose should go tho the base end of the cyl and B work port hose should go to the rod end of the cyl.

 

[glukowicz]

I haven't crossed the lines. However I did not know that the ports had to go to specific ends of the cylinder. So tomorrow I should try the configuration you describe. B port to rod end ans A port to the base. If that doesn't work I will , switch them to make sure the opposite doesn't work

I had to use the tractor and blade today so I switched back to the mechanical top link. Shouldn't I been able to push the rod back closed with the hydraulic connections on the cylinder unattached to any hoses?

 

[J_J]

It depends, some cyl are really tight. If you can get it to move, watch out for fluid squirting out.

 

[glukowicz]

On the suggestion of a tech at Surplus, I bypassed the FEL and used the line from the pump to this valve and the valve worked. I checked again and the PB plug is in the valve and the instructions say it comes installed. The 3 pt hitch which is downstream from this valve works. Before I put this valve on the 3 pt hitch was downstream of FEL valve and it worked. However as we both know, now that this valve is installed between FEL and 3 pt hitch everything works except this valve.

What if I installed gauge at the input of this valve? Would that give us a clue of the pressure coming from the FEL valve to this valve? Also could the PB plug be defective? Would the 3 pt hitch work if this valve wasn't getting adequate pressure?

 

[J_J]

glukowicz,

If you connected the valve in series, and it appears you have, as the 3pt is working.

If you put the valve in a tee ahead of the fel valve, it will tell you if any valve is in operation, and if it is relieving, and the pressure developed.

If you have fluid going through the remote valve, there is no reason that I can think of that you can not re-route the incoming fluid to the A or B port of that valve.

If you have a QD on the gage, and plugged it into the A work port and flipped the lever, you should see relief pressure. If that is a two spool valve, then you have 4 work ports that you can test.

Can you verify that the spools are moving in and out of the valve body?

The next time you are messing with the tractor, give me a call. I will send phone #via email.

 

[glukowicz]

Ok, the pressure at FEL on all work ports is 2250. However the 3 pt hitch is around 400 at work and drops back to 200 when 3 pt at full extension

 

[glukowicz]

Could I have used the tank line on FEL for input on new valve thinking it was the PB? If I did this would the 3 pt hitch still work?

 

[J_J]

With PB installed on the FEL valve, part of the end gallery is blocked off, so that the fluid from the cyl will only go to tank.

With PB installed, the fluid from the pump is flowing through this port to the next valve with valve levers in neutral..

If you inadvertently used the tank flow from the FEL to the input to the next valve, you would only have fluid when you were using the FEL cyl.

If you ran the PB to tank, the pump flow just went to tank unimpeded.

There should be no fluid downstream with the FEL valve in neutral.

You know the remote valve works because you checked it out using the pump flow directly.

So the problem has to be hose routing.

This is the most probably routing.

Pump out/pressure port, FEL IN port, FEL PB out to remote IN port, remote PB out to 3pt. All tank hoses to tank.

 

[glukowicz]

Well, I looked again at all the plumbing. Everything seems right. The only thing that possibly could be wrong was the tank and power beyond lines being crossed. So even though it does not make sense, I tried switching those lines and everything now works. How the 3 pt hitch was working being downstream from the FEL and the remote valve is a mystery.

Next project will be to install a cylinder on the bush hog blade for angle and offset. The offset will be easy but the hydraulic angle I will need to get some welding done to accommodate the cylinder. Also i will need to figure out what cylinder to use.

Thanks JJ for all your help. I am not sure how I would have gotten this far w/o your help. Sure has been a learning curve.

 

[J_J]

Glad you got everything worked out.

Thanks for posting back what the problem was. Curios minds need to know.

I still don't know how the 3pt was getting any fluid except when the FEL was being used.

With your FEL levers in neutral, all fluid from the PB port was going to tank, and none downstream.

Low pressure on the 3pt would alert you to a problem.

 

[glukowicz]

Well, everything did work. I used the tractor and rear blade to do some grading 3 weeks ago everything worked perfectly. Today I went out to use it and the FEL and the remote work, but not the 3 pt hitch. When engaging the 3 point hitch the pressure meter does not move.

It has to be something simple, but I can't see it. Can anyone give me an idea?

 

[J_J]

Some tractor have levers or switches to cut the 3pt out of the system.

Some of the people with BH do not have 3pt available , not that they need it. When removing the BH, they have to do something to recover 3pt operation, like switching a hose around or connecting the loop hose.

 

[bulldog69]

I already did the rear remote thing and after reading this thread I'm glad my friend gave me 2 good pieces of advise.

1: "don't over think it"
2: "keep it simple stupid"

Already having a fel on a tractor it is very easy to add as many RR's as you want or need and for cheap. All the hard work is already done because you have a working hyd system.

Take your loader supply and plumb it to the input on the new valve. I didn't even have to make any lines for this step, just rerout one. Next, with a new line come from the output of the new valve back to the input for the loader. You now have a remote valve plumbed. 2 lines coming from the new valve's ports to the rear of the tractor and mount the couplers and you are done. Loader is still full function, rear remotes when needed and the 3pt works like normal. As far as your original hyd system knows nothing was changed. I had already bought the valve and fabricated a mount for it the day before. Mounting everything and making all the lines took maybe 3 or 4 hrs. Total cost was under $300 and that was even using the push in/pull out type couplers like my M series has.

If more than one set of remotes are required just just buy a valve with how ever many controls are needed. 1, 2, 4, it would plumb in the same way. I hope you get yours worked out. Sounds like it's been a real headache for you so far.

 

[J_J]

Even $300 seems high for a single valve, two hoses and some QD's.

 

[bulldog69]

Valve was $130, couplers were $50 or $60 something and lines were around $80 or so. 3 lines total. Together 12 feet of hyd lines.

 

[J_J]

8 GPM remote valve kit, single spool with PB adapter.


REMOTE KIT from Surplus Hyd

One 8 GPM spool valve=$90

Surplus Center - 1 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB11B5C1 DA VALVE

One PB adapter=$3

Surplus Center - P-BEYOND & CLOSED CENTER PLUG 8 GPM MB VALVES

2 -12 ft hoses= 2 @$30=$60

Surplus Center - 3/8" X 144" JIC 6F X JIC 6F 4000 PSI HYD HOSE

2-3/8 QD @$16=$32

Surplus Center - 3/8" HYD QUICK COUPLER SAFEWAY S20-3

Total= $185 plus shipping

 

[glukowicz]

For me this was a learning curve. Not knowing the different threads used in hydraulics and the different terms. Learing about open center and how to diagnose a problem. I can see more clearly now that it is very much like plumbing.

The original major problem was having the power beyond and tank lines switched from the FEL valve. The way that valve is labeled, I think any novice could make that mistake. The switching of those lines was also made harder to diagnose because the 3 pt hitch still was working. The 3 pt hitch was downstream of FEL and remote valve. It wasn't until JJ suggested I get a pressure gauge installed that the solution became more obvious. The gauge showed that when the 3 pt hitch was fully engaged, it lost pressure. This revealed the plumbing mistake.

This latest problem is unrelated to installation of remote valve. I installed pressure gauge on tank line and it shows no pressure when engaging 3 pt hitch. So I assume the piston seals are ok. I also replumbed the remote out of the system and the 3 pt hitch still not working. There is a pressure reducing valve for the 3 pt hitch but it is opened and has never been closed. The linkage from the 3 pt hitch is working to where it enters the transmission. I called the mfg tech line and they have not had problems of this sort. There is no other cut off switch other than the pressure reducing valve. I guess this is going to a tractor mechanic, since I am reluctant to open up the transmission.

 

[bulldog69]

Before I took it in I would put everything back to stock and try it. I find it hard to believe that everything worked before the plumbing and then just stopped. I realize that things can break at any time but it seems strange that you are having trouble in the middle of a plumbing job.

 

[glukowicz]

Yeah Bulldog, I tried to say that in my last post. I replumbed to the original. It went from pump to FEL and then 3 pt hitch and 3 pt hitch did not work. From what I understand from the mfg, the lever controls the piston that allows the flow to raise or lower. With the pressure showing 0 on the tank side when lever is moved back and forth, it should mean seals are ok on the piston, otherwise the pressure flow would leak past the seals, if I understood the mfg right. The outside linkage on lever is working and everything else is inside the transmission so I can't see it.

And I agree it seems funny that it happened shortly after completing the remotes and working with them for a couple of hours. Then parking it until the day I found out that the 3 pt hitch was not working. If there is something else someone can tell me to try, I am all for it. I don't want to take it to someone to fix. I do have an honest reasonable mechanic to work on it.