ALGE IN DIESAL fuel!

[AlanB]

I guess we can argue about this all day. You may want to check these sites out though. If people dont want to believe that sulfur is important to the lubricity of diesel fuel, particularly in diesel engines produced before 2007, then they dont have to. The process of reducing the ppm of sulfer in diesel reduces the lubricity of the fuel which means more wear on the engine. I'm not going to waste my time arguing about it, i guess some people are set in their beliefs and cant be told otherwise. If the sulfer wasnt important everybody wouldnt be making a big deal about the transition to ULSD.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuelfactsheets/Lubricity.PDF

http://www.epa.gov/midwestcleandiesel/publications/presentations/il-05-06/schaefer.pdf

Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel - ULSD - Clean Diesel

Have you read the link's that you just posted?

Your own reference links say exactly what Sky Pup just said.

Sulfur is not the lubricant. The lubricity comes out, when they do the processes to remove the sulfur.

You remind me of a saying I use sometimes,

Your mind is made up, I won't confuse you with facts.

Please though, for your own good, and for the customers you sell too, carefully read the references you just cited, with an open mind as to what has been shown too you, without a preset belief that Sulfur is a lubricant.

Correction on my part, the third citation did reference that

"The argument here certainly isn’t in defense of higher sulfur fuel—its many drawbacks are quite evident. But sulfur in the fuel enhances lubricity, and older engines depend on it to protect their pumps and injectors from premature wear. To combat the loss of this lubrication, packages of additives that increase lubricity will be blended with the fuel prior to distribution."


As stated though, it is not the sulfur that is the lubricant, it is the lubricants are removed in the process of removing the sulfur.

And all that too the side, when the terminal loads, they add in their add pack of stuff so that the fuel delievered out meets the lubricity standard.

Oh, and I will write 100 times on the blackboard sulfur..... to learn my spelling.

 

[saparks10]

Have you read the link's that you just posted?

Your own reference links say exactly what Sky Pup just said.

Sulfur is not the lubricant. The lubricity comes out, when they do the processes to remove the sulfur.

You remind me of a saying I use sometimes,

Your mind is made up, I won't confuse you with facts.

Please though, for your own good, and for the customers you sell too, carefully read the references you just cited, with an open mind as to what has been shown too you, without a preset belief that Sulfur is a lubricant.

Correction on my part, the third citation did reference that

"The argument here certainly isn稚 in defense of higher sulfur fuel擁ts many drawbacks are quite evident. But sulfur in the fuel enhances lubricity, and older engines depend on it to protect their pumps and injectors from premature wear. To combat the loss of this lubrication, packages of additives that increase lubricity will be blended with the fuel prior to distribution."


As stated though, it is not the sulfur that is the lubricant, it is the lubricants are removed in the process of removing the sulfur.

And all that too the side, when the terminal loads, they add in their add pack of stuff so that the fuel delievered out meets the lubricity standard.

Oh, and I will write 100 times on the blackboard sulfur..... to learn my spelling.

I think everyone is getting away from the whole point of why this conversation was started. We went from algae is diesel fuel to the lubricity qualities of sulfur. No matter how you twist the facts sulfur is still important because it enhances the lubricity of the fuel, you cant twist that around. Sulfer is important, there wouldn't be a market for additives if it were not. No company is going to waste their time producing a product for a market that does not exist. When you have the EPA stating that sulfur enhances the lubricity of the fuel, I think it's safe to believe it. When the amount of sulfur is decreased the lubricity of the fuel is decreased, anyone disagree with that? You obviously cant pump pure sulfur into your bearings and expect it to funcion as a grease would. But you can add sulfur to diesel and improve the lubricity of the fuel, or you can take it out and decrease the lubricity. In addition, since we are having an English lesson I believe that sulfur should be placed after the word "write" in your last sentence and the word "delievered" should be replaced with delivered.

 

[SkyPup]

So what companies are selling sulfur for adding to diesel fuel and gasoline to replace all the sulfur that has been removed?

LOL, none that I am aware of anywhere in North America or Europe.

 

[DieselPower]

Some people just don't get it. Sulfur never has been and still is not a lubricant in diesel fuel. Other properties that are removed in the refining process when sulfur is removed are what actually provide lubricity. It's just a negative side effect of removing sulfur, you remove other things to.

Now is sulfur used as a lubricant in other industries and applications, sure. Cutting oils and old gear oils come to mind, fuel injection is not one of them.

As for a "sulfur" additive, I don't think you will ever see that in the US. It would be quite illegal to add sulfur back into the fuel.

 

[AlanB]

Good to Go there Sparks, but once again, you are misreading.

I spelled sulfur as sulfer.......... And was laughing at and correcting my own mistake, You know, the same one you made in the post below mine while correcting my english.

So,, cause I just got to know. I will contact Hydrotex tommorrow, and if they send me a message that says how important sulfur is as a lubricant in fuel,,,,,

I will post it here and then pull all their products off our shelves...

 

[DieselPower]

John Deere gives a good basic description of how sulfur is NOT a lubricant.
Does John Deere allow the use of Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel fuel? : Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel fuel in John Deere Engines.

"Generally speaking, the same oil refinery process used to reduce Sulfur content also removes Oxygen, Nitrogen, aromatic compounds, and other key characteristics in diesel fuel, which are considered to be natural fuel lubricity agents. Sulfur content by itself has little to do with fuel lubricity. Many oil refineries are now adding back in other fuel lubricity agents to prevent the former diesel fuel lubricity and rubber seal deterioration fiasco experienced back in 1993 and 1994. Reducing the sulfur content of diesel fuel from 500 ppm to 15 ppm will have no significant effect on engine fuel economy, fuel density, fuel heating value, or fuel lubricity. For your reference, here are the current and future government regulations addressing diesel fuel Sulfur content in the United States and Europe."


ABCs of ULSD

"The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricating agents. To manage this change, the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels. The standard went into effect January 1, 2005."


Stanadyne White Paper on Diesel Fuel

" Today, the most cost-effective way for refiners to produce low-sulfur diesel fuel is through hydrotreating, a process that removes sulfur by treating it with hydrogen. Because hydrogen is a highly reactive element, it also reacts with other components in the fuel, reducing the content of desirable. lubricity - enhancing chemicals."

Ethos Fuel Reformulator

"Shortly after the introduction of these low sulfur fuels,it was realized that the hydrotreatment also removed beneficial oxygen and nitrogen compounds, which are associated with diesel fuel lubricity. Due to the lost wear protection, diesel injection pump failures were reported. Volkswagen EADA documented numerous lubricity-related failures in their Bosch series VE diesel injection pumps with Canadian, low sulfur, winter diesel fuels. Excessive cam and roller wear failures were reported by VW in new pumps, which occurred between 3,000 km and 50,000 km of operation. Steps to restore fuel lubricity with additives applied at the refinery and/or in the field became necessary."

Nuff said, sulfur is not a lubricant. Back to the original topic of the thread. Sulfur may not effect lubricity but it does ****** the growth of bacteria in diesel fuel. Low sulfur fuels are more prone to microbial growth then the previous high sulfur fuels.

 

[jsborn]

Did anyone ever answer the original question and help us stop or prevent Algae in small storage drums or tanks? I can't keep it topped off and I don't want Algae so what should I do?


Will Power Service Silver bottle Help ?

 

[AlanB]

Did anyone ever answer the original question and help us stop or prevent Algae in small storage drums or tanks? I can't keep it topped off and I don't want Algae so what should I do?


Will Power Service Silver bottle Help ?

Yes, post 7 I Referenced Power Service's website, there are several others out there as well.

The different bottles all help somewhat but if you are fighting an Algae (microbe) problem, they make a specific product called a biocide that is used in both a "treatment" dose and a "maintenance" type dose to help cure, then prevent that type of problem.

 

[saparks10]

Some people just don't get it. Sulfur never has been and still is not a lubricant in diesel fuel. Other properties that are removed in the refining process when sulfur is removed are what actually provide lubricity. It's just a negative side effect of removing sulfur, you remove other things to.

Now is sulfur used as a lubricant in other industries and applications, sure. Cutting oils and old gear oils come to mind, fuel injection is not one of them.

As for a "sulfur" additive, I don't think you will ever see that in the US. It would be quite illegal to add sulfur back into the fuel.

There of course is no pure sulfur additive. If you check the back of many fuel additives you will see a certain PPM of sulfur in the additive. You will not see sulfur alone as an additive, that would be ignorant. Listen guys all i'm trying to say is that sulfur is used in additives to enhance lubricity. Regardless of what the reason is, ULSD has less lubricity. So without an adequate fuel additive there is more wear taking place within older engines. The companies that are refining the ULSD and stripping it of its lubricity are blending additives with the fuel before it is distributed, but the additive package does not compare to the initial lubricity of the fuel before the PPM of sulfur was decreased. It doesnt matter whos additive you use, but you should use one, even if its just to clean the engine and fuel components.

 

[saparks10]

John Deere gives a good basic description of how sulfur is NOT a lubricant.
Does John Deere allow the use of Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel fuel? : Ultra-Low-Sulfur diesel fuel in John Deere Engines.

"Generally speaking, the same oil refinery process used to reduce Sulfur content also removes Oxygen, Nitrogen, aromatic compounds, and other key characteristics in diesel fuel, which are considered to be natural fuel lubricity agents. Sulfur content by itself has little to do with fuel lubricity. Many oil refineries are now adding back in other fuel lubricity agents to prevent the former diesel fuel lubricity and rubber seal deterioration fiasco experienced back in 1993 and 1994. Reducing the sulfur content of diesel fuel from 500 ppm to 15 ppm will have no significant effect on engine fuel economy, fuel density, fuel heating value, or fuel lubricity. For your reference, here are the current and future government regulations addressing diesel fuel Sulfur content in the United States and Europe."


ABCs of ULSD

"The processing required to reduce sulfur to 15 ppm also removes naturally-occurring lubricating agents. To manage this change, the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) adopted the lubricity specification defined in ASTM D975 for all diesel fuels. The standard went into effect January 1, 2005."


Stanadyne White Paper on Diesel Fuel

" Today, the most cost-effective way for refiners to produce low-sulfur diesel fuel is through hydrotreating, a process that removes sulfur by treating it with hydrogen. Because hydrogen is a highly reactive element, it also reacts with other components in the fuel, reducing the content of desirable. lubricity - enhancing chemicals."

Ethos Fuel Reformulator

"Shortly after the introduction of these low sulfur fuels,it was realized that the hydrotreatment also removed beneficial oxygen and nitrogen compounds, which are associated with diesel fuel lubricity. Due to the lost wear protection, diesel injection pump failures were reported. Volkswagen EADA documented numerous lubricity-related failures in their Bosch series VE diesel injection pumps with Canadian, low sulfur, winter diesel fuels. Excessive cam and roller wear failures were reported by VW in new pumps, which occurred between 3,000 km and 50,000 km of operation. Steps to restore fuel lubricity with additives applied at the refinery and/or in the field became necessary."

Nuff said, sulfur is not a lubricant. Back to the original topic of the thread. Sulfur may not effect lubricity but it does ****** the growth of bacteria in diesel fuel. Low sulfur fuels are more prone to microbial growth then the previous high sulfur fuels.

I do agree with you that sulfur retards the growth of bacteria in diesel fuel. I believe skypup will disagree on this one though.