Alternative 3rd function?

[RancherGuy]

The electric type valves add little to the cost.
...
IMO, the ONLY benefit to a manual valve is the ability to feather the control. But mounting options are limited to still put it in an ergonomic location without getting real creative. Whereas an electric type can be mounted anywhere because you only have a button on the joystick.

What I have not figured out is why almost every 3rd function is a push button = on/off. Personally, I like to control the speed and fine touch of a spool valve.

The current push button concept is a button on the joystick handle. Some say a 3rd spool valve means the hand must be removed from the joystick. I say ... why aren't joysticks made with a twist-style handgrip that is connected to a spool valve? Therefore without removing one's hand, there are 3 'proportional' dimensions: forward/back, left/right, twist left/right.

If anyone knows of a supplier, let me know! I have manual (cable) type joysticks and a fully electronic JD joystick.

 

[ovrszd]

My previous tractor had the FEL valve located on the FEL frame. It was a joystick. I purchased a valve from Surplus Center that had a joystick with a push/pull valve added to the side. Worked great.

Then I took the original joystick valve and mounted it on the right tractor fender. Plumbed it to create two rear remotes.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

My previous tractor had the FEL valve located on the FEL frame. It was a joystick. I purchased a valve from Surplus Center that had a joystick with a push/pull valve added to the side. Worked great.

Then I took the original joystick valve and mounted it on the right tractor fender. Plumbed it to create two rear remotes.


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Now that's a nice setup!

 

[TMGT]

What I have not figured out is why almost every 3rd function is a push button = on/off. Personally, I like to control the speed and fine touch of a spool valve.

The current push button concept is a button on the joystick handle. Some say a 3rd spool valve means the hand must be removed from the joystick. I say ... why aren't joysticks made with a twist-style handgrip that is connected to a spool valve? Therefore without removing one's hand, there are 3 'proportional' dimensions: forward/back, left/right, twist left/right.

If anyone knows of a supplier, let me know! I have manual (cable) type joysticks and a fully electronic JD joystick.

That's where a diverter comes on, push button on the joystick and fine control of the spool valve.

Sent from my SM-G715U1 using TractorByNet mobile app

 

[ovrszd]

Now that's a nice setup!

Thank you. Made a very versatile machine out of that tractor.

 

[2manyrocks]

I'm about to take delivery on a Kubota L2501HST and would like to add a grapple. It seems that my off the shelf kit options might be either to buy the Summit Kit that has the electric solenoid or the Tractor Innovations Kit that appears to be a manual push valve control.

I tend to think I would like to have a manual valve controlled by a lever because it would be easier to reach and because there's no electric solenoid involved.

Could use some help sourcing the right kind of valve and what I should be looking for in terms of hoses, connectors and whatever other parts I'm going to need. Do I simply need a valve, a mount, hoses, and connectors to the Kubota plus the hoses and connectors to the grapple along with a hose mount at the end of the loader?

On the other hand, if there are really good reasons to go with the manual push valve control, then could someone please educate me why the manual push valve would be better in use than a lever system?

 

[ericm979]

The Summit kit includes a high quality replacement joystick control knob with two buttons on it, one for up and one for down. You don't need to move your hand from the loader joystick just use your thumb or a finger. A manual lever will not be as convenient to operate.

 

[2manyrocks]

I asked Tractors Innovations why he didn't use the lever style and he said it was $40 more and the lever would be even harder to reach.

With this kind of on/off valve, am I going to be able to feather the clamping action of a grapple?

With the Summit kit, would I be able to feather the grapple clamping action?

 

[ericm979]

With a solenoid third function you can't feather the valve. It's on or off.

I'm using a regular rear remote type valve mounted on the fender. I can feather with it. But I never do. I hold it down until the grapple lids stop moving, or until it looks like they have gripped as hard as I want. My grapple is a dual lid model so the lids move slower than a single lid would. But if your lid(s) moves too fast you can add a restrictor to slow them down.

I use my grapple for logs and brush mostly, but it's grabbed and carried all sorts of things. I leave it on the tractor all the time and use it a lot. I've never wanted to feather it for any task.

 

[ovrszd]

With a solenoid third function you can't feather the valve. It's on or off.

I'm using a regular rear remote type valve mounted on the fender. I can feather with it. But I never do. I hold it down until the grapple lids stop moving, or until it looks like they have gripped as hard as I want. My grapple is a dual lid model so the lids move slower than a single lid would. But if your lid(s) moves too fast you can add a restrictor to slow them down.

I use my grapple for logs and brush mostly, but it's grabbed and carried all sorts of things. I leave it on the tractor all the time and use it a lot. I've never wanted to feather it for any task.

I use a true 3rd function. Controlling grip is done by tap, tap, tap of the button.

The best part of the button on the joystick is when clamping I can hold the button, roll, lift the Grapple and continually tighten my grip on the object in question.

 

[2manyrocks]

I use a true 3rd function. Controlling grip is done by tap, tap, tap of the button.

The best part of the button on the joystick is when clamping I can hold the button, roll, lift the Grapple and continually tighten my grip on the object in question.

Can you recommend an aftermarket kit to me for the L2501 I'm about to take delivery on?

 

[beckmurph]

My 3rd function setup is made by Landpride. Installation instructions are fairly good.

Landpride is part of Kubota, so if you finance your 2501, you could roll you 3rd function valve in with your tractor.

 

[dieselscout80]

@ericm979 - I only added the momentary switch for the 3rd function diverter valve. The other two are the HI / LO speed selector buttons for the HST.

We use the feathering feature all the time, especially with the tree / post puller (it will cut smaller saplings in half if it is closed to hard). Also it is nice to use on the grapple when placing / stacking rocks.

Our diverter valve came with a switch as part of the kit, but I didn't like how I was going to have to surface mount it, so I installed this one. It is in a very easy location to use without moving your hand from the loader valve controls. Arrow is the one I installed...

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dlctcg, can you provide me the make and part number for the switch you have for your 3rd function, also where you got it at?

I have a TC45DA and it has been that same joy stick and that’s the first switch I have seen that looks like it works good on that joy stick.

 

[dlctcg]

@dieselscout80 - I did search all over for a switch that we were going to be happy with, & that had a small enough switch body to fit in the joystick; that also could handle the elements & abuse... There are others but we do like how this one fit & works...

As to not feel like I'm hi-jacking this thread with a ton of switch info not relevant to the OP's post... I'll send you a PM on the switch & configurations there are a bunch of options...

 

[2manyrocks]

My 3rd function setup is made by Landpride. Installation instructions are fairly good.

Landpride is part of Kubota, so if you finance your 2501, you could roll you 3rd function valve in with your tractor.

I'm getting the equine discount and not using financing. Dealer says there's no discount on LandPride under the equine program. So that's why I'm looking for an aftermarket valve.

Generally, it would seem that there's a convenience tradeoff between a manual diverter valve and an electric solenoid valve versus the reliability of a purely manual diverter valve.

Electric solenoids can fail in a lot of ways. 1132_2009_Reliability and life study of hydraulic solenoid valve-Part 2 _S. V. Angadi, R. L. Jackson.pdf

 

[dieselscout80]

@dieselscout80 - I did search all over for a switch that we were going to be happy with, & that had a small enough switch body to fit in the joystick; that also could handle the elements & abuse... There are others but we do like how this one fit & works...

As to not feel like I'm hi-jacking this thread with a ton of switch info not relevant to the OP's post... I'll send you a PM on the switch & configurations there are a bunch of options...

Thanks!!

 

[2manyrocks]

What about a hydraulic check valve when adding 3rd function?

This video from Messicks shows over 6,000 PSI back feeding into the hydraulic system when a grapple is being abused. Then he mentions that some higher end grapples have check valves to stop the grapple cylinder from acting like a pump back into the tractor's hydraulic system.

I only noticed this after someone mentioned in a video that the Summit kit has 5,000 psi hoses going out to the grapple end and mentioned the Messick's video.

watch

 

[ovrszd]

Can you recommend an aftermarket kit to me for the L2501 I'm about to take delivery on?

I made my own. Brian, Mountainview Ranch, here on TBN can set you up. Or talk to your Kubota dealer. Sorry I can't be of more help.

 

[2manyrocks]

I've watched several grapple reviews and several third function install reviews.

And yet the one thing that may actually be really important is the Messick's video warning that PSI pressures can spike using a grapple unless it has a check valve which none of the smaller, less expensive grapples apparently have.

Think about all the leverage that a long tree trunk would exert against a grapple lid if it weren't balanced in the grapple. If that energy is being transferred back into the tractor hydraulic system via the hydraulic cylinder, that's not good.

If this can be avoided by installing a check valve, then it would seem pretty cheap insurance against what could be very costly.

 

[ovrszd]

I've watched several grapple reviews and several third function install reviews.

And yet the one thing that may actually be really important is the Messick's video warning that PSI pressures can spike using a grapple unless it has a check valve which none of the smaller, less expensive grapples apparently have.

Think about all the leverage that a long tree trunk would exert against a grapple lid if it weren't balanced in the grapple. If that energy is being transferred back into the tractor hydraulic system via the hydraulic cylinder, that's not good.

If this can be avoided by installing a check valve, then it would seem pretty cheap insurance against what could be very costly.

I have no check valves. I've not even blown a hose or cylinder in ten years of extreme use.