Aluminum really inferior for tractors???

[_RaT_]

To get back on topic, I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

1)What, if anything, is tougher/stouter/more durable on modern CUTs than on traditional utility type Ag tractors of 40 to 50 years ago?

2)What is that component made of; iron or aluminum?

Answers:

1)the (4WD) front axles. Nowadays the front axles are designed for loader usage and must, at times, be able to support the the loader, whatever's in the bucket, acceleration loads and possibly the rest of the tractor (if the bucket is grossly overloaded). As has been pointed out above, the kind of bucket loads that are easily possible today with 4WD weren't practical in the past with a 2WD. Failure of the front axle under a heavy bucket load could be catastrophic and lead to lawsuits.

2)axles and housings made of iron and steel.

The point is that, even today, when the manufacturers know strength is a top priority in a given component and a failure will result in lawsuits, they go with iron/steel.
Bob

Geez Bob, your right, my last post was way off topic so I deleted it. Forgot what we were even taling about. Your point about the front axle is well understood. A friend of mine who owns and operates a back hoe business was mentioning to me how relatively small the front axle was on his beast and yet how at one time he had almost the enitre weight of the hoe on one front wheel. The hoe weighs in at 21,000lbs. When you look at the componets on most any industrial hoe, the beef is obvious and the stress points beefed up.

 

[Dargo]

So uh.. what part of my message here said anything about 2wd being better in the mud than 4wd???? I said if I can't get there in 2wd.. I won't even try in 4wd.. as I'll only get stuck farther out...

Soundguy

Nah, cap that relief valve on the turbo wastegate, put in some 5000 RPM GSK, increase the pump capacity by at least 200%, make sure you have your tires cut right, pick one higher gear than you think you need, and then pour the oil to her! You'll not only get all the way through, but you'll get to check how good your brakes are on the other side. Oh yeah, that's also where having all 4 wheels stopping will help too.

I really do think I'll check out some tractors with some alloys used for lighter "as is" setup for my next tractor. I need a tractor that I can run around on my little 12 acre lawn (running light) but then load up with weight and lock in 4X4 for the rough couple hundred acres I have just north of my house. That is where having the ability to run light, or heavy, in 2wd or 4wd really comes in handy. Also, with our 36" snow we had here last winter, my tractor wasn't pushing anything in 2wd. Bury my bucket full of heavy wet snow, lock both axles, and it was a entirely different beast. That's where weight and 4X4 made a HUGE difference. The loader also came in handy when I missed the road in some places and ended up in the ditch. It not only kept me from going over a couple of times, but also worked nicely to paddle myself out.

 

[slowrev]

Aluminum rear ends cause you to lose ballast weight to offset the loader.
Ben

 

[Soundguy]

Maybee if I had had big balloon flotation tires i might have been able to stop and reverse.. but as it was.. I sank to high centered in about 1 second... 4x4 couldn't save me.. heck.. 6x6 wouldn' have saved me.

One thing I do see.. We are all talking about 100% different terain. Most of the guys that don't mind 2wd come from areas like I do... pancake flat places.. or a minor hill.. etc. Or have specilized uses.. like frequent front tool work ( fel / blower/blade ) Again.. I have none of that here..

Soundguy

Nah, cap that relief valve on the turbo wastegate, put in some 5000 RPM GSK, increase the pump capacity by at least 200%, make sure you have your tires cut right, pick one higher gear than you think you need, and then pour the oil to her! You'll not only get all the way through, but you'll get to check how good your brakes are on the other side. Oh yeah, that's also where having all 4 wheels stopping will help too.

I really do think I'll check out some tractors with some alloys used for lighter "as is" setup for my next tractor. I need a tractor that I can run around on my little 12 acre lawn (running light) but then load up with weight and lock in 4X4 for the rough couple hundred acres I have just north of my house. That is where having the ability to run light, or heavy, in 2wd or 4wd really comes in handy. Also, with our 36" snow we had here last winter, my tractor wasn't pushing anything in 2wd. Bury my bucket full of heavy wet snow, lock both axles, and it was a entirely different beast. That's where weight and 4X4 made a HUGE difference. The loader also came in handy when I missed the road in some places and ended up in the ditch. It not only kept me from going over a couple of times, but also worked nicely to paddle myself out.

 

[biker128pedal]

I checked my B7610. The front axle housing is magnetic. Could be cast iron or steel. You cut yours up. The rear axle is steel and the housing is non-magnetic most likely aluminum alloy. Hey it could be a zinc alloy. I did not check the engine but the only part non-magnetic was the rear axle housing. The box for the 3 pt lift arms and the lift arms are magnetic.

Now for aluminum vs. cast iron. Both have their applications. As far as toughness and strength both are good if designed correctly and manufactured correctly. If not they will break. Cast iron has been around longer so other than the newer heat treatment processes to better control the grain size and uniformity it is not as hard to screw it up. With aluminum stong cast and extruded alloys are newer and the manufacturing processes are typically proprietary.

The yield strength of the best alumium alloys are about equal to cast iron but because the density is about a third the aluminum casting can be made thicker and still be lighter. If you want and need weight then cast iron has the advantage. Less need to fill tires or use wheel weights. But you cannot take the weight off.

It's all part of what you use it for. The argument is like that of Ag tires vs R4s vs turf. Go ride them and find out what you like. Then go ride them again. The big problem I had is finding a dealer with anything in stock even with the same frame size.

Search through the forum and other places on the web. Those with broken tractor speak out and you will see both.

 

[Soundguy]

What about brittleness of aluminum compaired to cast iron. I've seen a few aluminum structures that got stress fractures in places of strss like corner gussets and bolt holes. ( I guess you could go with thicker aluminum vs c/iron.. be as strong and lighter.. and have a beefier machine... not discounting that idea.. etc.

Soundguy

 

[Henro]

Henro,

I am not sure about your B2910, but from what I have seen, the three tractors I mentioned have basically all the same major components. I am sure that the B3030 trans and rear axle housing are aluminum. Try checking your tractor with a smaller magnet if you are not sure. Those housings are full of steel and a strong magnet will not be stopped by a relatively thin layer of aluminum. Why does it matter anyway? If you are happy with the performance of your tractor then it's all good.

In case anyone in the future reads this thread and gets this far, I thought I would report that I checked the rear transmission case, and axle housing on my B2910 Kubota, with a small, relatively weak magnet, and the results were the same. Magnetic material that looks like cast iron.

Accuracy is the only reason it matters. The B2910 Kubota is considered one of the cuts that has a high HP/weight ratio, and is indeed rather light for its HP. Use of aluminum in place of cast iron does not seem excessive, and is probably not the reason for the light weight of the tractor. Not that it matters; I've worked this tractor fairly hard so far and it has performed well...at this point I would not care if the housings were aluminum. Might even prefer aluminum as it would enhance heat dissapation somewhat.

 

[_RaT_]

In case anyone in the future reads this thread and gets this far, I thought I would report that I checked the rear transmission case, and axle housing on my B2910 Kubota, with a small, relatively weak magnet, and the results were the same. Magnetic material that looks like cast iron.

Accuracy is the only reason it matters. The B2910 Kubota is considered one of the cuts that has a high HP/weight ratio, and is indeed rather light for its HP. Use of aluminum in place of cast iron does not seem excessive, and is probably not the reason for the light weight of the tractor. Not that it matters; I've worked this tractor fairly hard so far and it has performed well...at this point I would not care if the housings were aluminum. Might even prefer aluminum as it would enhance heat dissapation somewhat.

Its not an area that really suffers from high heat levels. Now if your talking about the engine, you might say it has a slight advantage in heat disapation which can at times may be beneficial, but then, I would not advocate that an aluminum engine block particularly on a diesel engine is a better choice of material.

 

[RobJ]

if I can't get there in 2wd.. I don't try.. cause if i have to use 4wd to get there.. likely I'll need a tow vehicle to get out... chevron tred ain't great in reverse..

Soundguy

Good point that I agree with, it's a tractor for petes sake.

I never said a 2wd was better either.

 

[Soundguy]

Yeah.. I'm not sure where that came from... cause i dind't say or imply it by any stretch... All I said was my 2wd tractor w/ loader was better than me and a wheel barrow.. ( no 4wd comparison ). And that if I can't get somewhere in 2wd on a 4wd tractor.. then I ain't trying... been there.. done that.. had to dig in muck for hours... lost my tshirt.. )

Soundguy