Amsoil Syn Hydraulic Fluid vs Super UDT or NH 200

cowboydoc · Mar 18, 2005

If a lubricant you use in a machine is not API certified per the specified requirements for the machine, then is your warranty void ?


I'm not going to get into this with anyone but it most certainly does. You want to take the chance that is fine. I just want people to be aware that warranties are void for using Amsoil and other oils taht don't meet mfg. specs. Here is just one example. I don't have the time to pull up every one of them. But if you go to CAT, Dodge, Ford, Chevy, and other forums you will see a # of warranties that were denied. Here is one. And why wouldn't they be denied? The mfg. has to have some kind of standard to hold people to. If I'm going to give you a warranty and you choose to break that warranty by doing what you read and not what my engineers recommended then great do it, but be ready to pay the price. Your choice, your rig, but don't think the Magnuson-Moss act is blanket protection. Once the dealer denies the warranty you're going to need a good lawyer and lots of $ to get it reversed.

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

I have an opinion but I would contact Amsoil.

But a quick answer per Amsoil was/is no.

Per Kubota:

Engine Oil:
Oil used in the engine should have an American Petroleum Institute (API) service classification and Proper SAE Engine oil according to the ambient temperatures.

As long as the oil has the proper "API service classification" you are fine.

KennedyDiesel · Mar 18, 2005

( One point here I did not see made. If a lubricant you use in a machine is not API certified per the specified requirements for the machine, then is your warranty void ?
Ben
)

I don't see that happening, but I have heard of cases where a truck lost coolant into the oil which made a big block of gelatin. This was a synthetic Amsoil product. Warranty was denied.

Tires are measured and tagged to meet DOT spec.

ROPS is measured and tagged to meet SAE spec.

Engine Oil is measured and tagged to meet API spec.

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

Richard, you ".....are hundreds of people that are having warranty denied because"...I see one and it is he said "ford said"..I want Ford doc' or email froms Ford. Not he said she said..

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

( I don't see that happening, but I have heard of cases where a truck lost coolant into the oil which made a big block of gelatin. This was a synthetic Amsoil product. Warranty was denied.)

The engine oil has nothing to even do with this example. This sounds like the old 7.3 Powerchokes with pin holes in the wet liners.

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

( If a lubricant you use in a machine is not API certified per the specified requirements for the machine, then is your warranty void ?


I'm not going to get into this with anyone but it most certainly does. You want to take the chance that is fine. I just want people to be aware that warranties are void for using Amsoil and other oils taht don't meet mfg. specs. Here is just one example. I don't have the time to pull up every one of them. But if you go to CAT, Dodge, Ford, Chevy, and other forums you will see a # of warranties that were denied. Here is one. And why wouldn't they be denied? The mfg. has to have some kind of standard to hold people to. If I'm going to give you a warranty and you choose to break that warranty by doing what you read and not what my engineers recommended then great do it, but be ready to pay the price. Your choice, your rig, but don't think the Magnuson-Moss act is blanket protection. Once the dealer denies the warranty you're going to need a good lawyer and lots of $ to get it reversed. )

per Amsoil website for all to see:

Q: Will AMSOIL Motor Oils void the warranty of a new vehicle?

A: Absolutely not! Manufacturers’ warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications, for example, SJ/CF. (AMSOIL lubricants meet the current API Service requirements and, thus, are perfectly suited for use in any new vehicle without affecting the validity of the new vehicle warranty.)

Also contacted them last year to prove a point:

To: Mike Burnickas
From: AMSOIL Technical Services
Email: Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:06:56 -0500

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.
In response to your inquiry…

Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) recommend consumers use lubricants of the proper viscosity grade and service classification. Any oil, whether it’s petroleum oil or synthetic, may be used without affecting the overall warranty coverage. OEMs pay or deny warranty claims based on the findings of failure analysis. To affect the vehicle warranty, the lubricant must be directly responsible for the failure. If the oil did not cause the problem the warranty cannot be voided, regardless of the brand of oil used, viscosity, or the length of time or number of miles the oil was used.

tomnky · Mar 18, 2005

I really wouldn't expect Amsoil to say anything else.

But when it comes to warranty issues I would be more concerned with what the manufacturer had to say about all this, moreso than what an oil company had to say.
My personal opinion is One should verify just what oil and I would ask specifically about Amsoil if I were intending on using it.

I would want verification from the Manufacturer or a Dealer in writing in case anything did come up about this.
The way I see it if they won't put it in writing, then I don't need their product.

SkyPup · Mar 18, 2005

Last year 5,000 people in the US died from eating contaminated food that was certified by the USDA, another 250,000 died taking drugs that were certified by the FDA.

And you think the American Petroleum Industry (API) certifing itself is guaranteeded to protect you???? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

( I really wouldn't expect Amsoil to say anything else.

But when it comes to warranty issues I would be more concerned with what the manufacturer had to say about all this, moreso than what an oil company had to say.
My personal opinion is One should verify just what oil and I would ask specifically about Amsoil if I were intending on using it.

I would want verification from the Manufacturer or a Dealer in writing in case anything did come up about this.
The way I see it if they won't put it in writing, then I don't need their product. )

I told Amsoil what oil I wanted to use (of their's) and in what car and what year of car.

This topic has come up time and time again and the dealer does side with caution since most users will have a very hard time with going longer or whatever. If you want it in writing then so be it. That also does not mean it is any good either. The dealer will take your money no matter what.

I also have not have an engine fail to oil in a long time (since I have been driving).

It comes down to what gives the customer a warm and fuzzy feeling. For me, dealers will fight with you no matter what and something in writing means zero. They will find a way to get out of it.

KennedyDiesel · Mar 18, 2005

( Last year 5,000 people in the US died from eating contaminated food that was certified by the USDA, another 250,000 died taking drugs that were certified by the FDA.

And you think the American Petroleum Industry (API) certifing itself is guaranteeded to protect you???? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif )

No guarrantees, and nothing is absolute, but just think how much worse it could have been had the USDA not rejected X many tons of food...

SkyPup · Mar 18, 2005

That is why I am all for government regulation of private industry instead of private industry regulation of private industry.

slowrev · Mar 18, 2005

Absolutely not! Manufacturers’ warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service Classifications, for example, SJ/CF. (AMSOIL lubricants meet the current API Service requirements and, thus, are perfectly suited for use in any new vehicle without affecting the validity of the new vehicle warranty.)
//
I agree with this, IF the oil is certified to meet the required API specs for your warranty application, then all is good. If the oil is not certified by API then the manufacturer can void your warranty.

The whole point of this thread is about whether a lubricant is certified by API to meet the manufacturers requirements. If it is not and the problem is oil related then the manufacturer can void your warranty at least for that repair.

Amsoil will send lawyers to your defense in the other case ?

Ben

cowboydoc · Mar 18, 2005

It would be up to you to prove that the oil used did not cause the problem. Or is Amsoil going to send one of their lawyers to help you ?


You're exactly right Ben. Way back with the 6.9l engines when people first started putting turbos on them Banks said no way can the mfg. void your warranty because of Mag. Moss Act. Well the initial ones people had problems. Ford denied warranty. Banks sent their form letter. Alot of guys got together and tryed to do a class action suit. They never even made it to court with it. Well now every mfg. hides behind that. The problem is when a warranty issue comes up all that any of these mfg, amsoil included, does is send a form letter. They don't send a letter, they don't go to court for you or anything else. It's up to you to get a lawyer and fight it. Nobody, not even the government is going to help you. Doesn't matter if it's better for your truck or not.

In the past most dealers got to make the calls themselves on warranty. Now most anything over $500 has to have prior approval. That means that there is going to be a regional mgr. involved. I've been through myself, I've had friends go through it, and like I said there are numerous cases on the internet. Am I going to post 200 pages of the case I went through here? No not likely. Nor do I think Muhammad would appreciate that. And I really don't care if anyone believes me or not. I'm just trying to put my experiences out there and what I've been involved with. It's not fun to do go through it, it costs alot of money to get a lawyer involved, and your expensive tractor or vehicle sits while it's straightened out or you pay out of pocket to have it fixed and then risk not having the evidence if you go to trial. My personal experience is don't count on oil company or aftermarket guarantees and don't count on Mag. Moss Act. Play it by the book exactly what the mfg. recommends and you won't have an issue. If you want to roll the dice and possibly have the warranty denied that's your choice too.

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

But Kubota states that the oil "should have an American Petroleum Institute (API) service classification ..." It does not say it must or is required. It also states classification, not a symbol on the bottle or whatever.

Also long as the oil passes the proper ASTM, SAE or API standards you are fine.

I had MAJOR engine problems with my GSXR1100 for one complete year. It was in the shop on full year and I did one oil change and Suzuki Corp send a tech out and the oil was not even an issue.

So again, you can take whomever words you want and do what gives you a "good feeling inside". So far since driving I have had zero issue with oil or warrenty. But I know Ford will deny anything to everything. When I bought my f350 the sales guy wanted to know if I want a plow or camper pkg and I said no. The person then says good, since it will void the warrenty. I then ask, you the dealer sells a product that voids a warrenty. He said nothing and kept moving?

So case in point the warrenty is worth what you make it. If they build a quality item, you do not need it.

Charolais · Mar 18, 2005

I'd like to read those also. If you get them, I'll PM you and give you my e-mail addy. I can take a few pages at a time. And then take some more. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I bought a new Dodge pickup in 98. Told them I was going to use Amsoil in it. The dealer had no problems with it. My tractor and equipment dealer said the same. Heck he even sells Amsoil. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

My Farmtrac 80 that I bought in May of last year had a problem with air in the hydraulic oil. I had changed it over to Amsoil. My dealer knew this. Farmtrac worked on the problem and found a solution. Just had the kit installed by the dealer 4 weeks ago. No cost to me and they came out to my farm and did the work. Problem solved. The guy installing the kit said the dealer told him "Don't spill one drop of that Amsoil either!!". LOL /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tomnky · Mar 18, 2005

well I tell You what Mike.
You take Amsoils word over the Dealer or Manufacturer, If it ever goes to court ,mediation. You see How long they will support You, especially If they are the ones that will eventually foot the bill.

Manufacturers can and do deny warranty claims for some ridiculous things.

This is all I am saying on this subject. You do what You want and I will do what I think is appropriate concerning this matter.

End of discussion as far as I am concerned.

cowboydoc · Mar 18, 2005

bought a new Dodge pickup in 98. Told them I was going to use Amsoil in it. The dealer had no problems with it. My tractor and equipment dealer said the same. Heck he even sells Amsoil.


As long as it meets the specs then you are fine. I'm not saying that it's wrong to use amsoil. But make sure whatever oil you are using is approved for use in your vehicle or tractor. I'm curious did they tell you there would be no problem with extended drain intervals? Did they say your warranty would be covered if you didn't follow mfg. recommendations on your maintenance? Also remember what the dealer tells you and what corporate will cover are two different things. Back in 98' the dealers had pretty much complete control over warranty work. Now most all companies, tractor and vehicle, anything substantial has to go through a district or regional manager. It doesn't matter squat what the dealer told you. What matters is what the "penny pinching" regional manager is going to approve.

gsxr1100 · Mar 18, 2005

( In the past most dealers got to make the calls themselves on warranty. Now most anything over $500 has to have prior approval. That means that there is going to be a regional mgr. involved. I've been through myself, I've had friends go through it, and like I said there are numerous cases on the internet. Am I going to post 200 pages of the case I went through here? No not likely )

Richard- Please send me your "200" + pages of warrenty coverage issues. I have lots of server space and I can post them.

I had this question posed back on 03/18/05 11:58 AM but somehow this is gone.

So please send me the info and I will post it online.

Charolais · Mar 18, 2005

I'm curious did they tell you there would be no problem with extended drain intervals? 

I didn't tell them I'd run extended drain. And to be honest with you,they would have to prove that I did. That game is played both ways. You can be sure I know what to do if I had engine problems and take care of that before I took the truck in for repair. I knew by 1998 that Amsoil even with extended drain isn't going to cause an engine failure.

Did they say your warranty would be covered if you didn't follow mfg. recommendations on your maintenance? Nope they didn't. But after I had changed the transmission fluid over to Amsoil I had a sensor go bad in the transmission. Told them it was Amsoil in it and to put it back in when they finished the job. They did and the part and labor was on them. No problem there. Also had them replace the valve cover gaskets before the warranty ran out. No problem there either. They've always put my lifetime air filters back on when they finish a job too.

And no I've never had any internal engine work done. Hey I use Amsoil! What can I say!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

cowboydoc · Mar 18, 2005

I'm not playing your stupid games anymore Mike. I posted my information to prevent someone else from having problems and having to go through warranty issues. If a person wants to play the game and challenge the company and warranty have at it. It's not fun and it costs more money in the end than the repair would have. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone else. You don't want to take my word for it that's fine but I'm not going to waste my time and give you personal information on myself just to prove a point. Like you always say the information is out there go find it.