Another backhoe question

[murraya8922]

A small backhoe can do a lot including digging a 30,000 gallon pool (break the banks and move dirt with front bucket), installing and trenching for inspected/approved septic field, electrical tranches 36" deep to machine sheds, removal of stumps, water lines to gardens, etc....
Stumping I can generally do 5 pine tree stumps per hour, 14" avg. diameter, from freshly fallen trees on a b2620 or an l3301.
Footing for a 2,000 sq. foot shop took half a day.
150' electrical trench down to 36" in sandy soils about 3 hours.
Super nice to have it when and where wanted with no notice or worry of picking up and getting it back to rental shop.
But on the downside it could make you super popular around your village or wherever you live.
Slower than a big bucketed excavator, weaker than a mini ex. but sure valuable to me.
I am well experienced and careful with my stuff. I could do some pretty stupid things with my BH that could wreck stuff but I simply don't push it rather take my time, use my head, and have yet to have O-sh@t moments. We were tought in grade school farming classes smooth is fast, steady is safe, and getting home at end of day is the goal.

Cheers

Thanks for the great response and pictures.
When you brought up water lines, I couldn't help but think of some of the ranches I worked on while I was younger. EVERY winter there were busted pipes to the outbuildings. Buying them in a trench sure would have saved them some $$$.
I also forgot about the septic system! I think I will be able to really get my moneys worth out of the BH. It's a "Branson" BH200 by the way. Going to see if I can get the BH250.

 

[murraya8922]

My father has a 9000 Woods backhoe on his Kubota, we used to use it alot for digging deck piers. For digging stumps, it is not the right machine. Way too small and you really are beating the tractor for nothing. For your uses, I would look for an older Ford or Case backhoe. Ive seen some steller open cab models go really cheap because nobody wants them. A friend of mine offered to sell me a Ford 3550 which I bought, I put some money in it, but Im in for less than one months rental of a backhoe. At 50 hp and 10,000 lbs its a very nice homeowner size rig, especially with the front forks mine came with. No question excavators are best but not everyone can justify them, plus the front bucket on mine sees as much use as the hoe.

Based on the manufacturer specs on the BH200, it outperforms a John Deere 17G mini ex, and the 26G barely beats it. In terms of the bucker and dipper strength. I was very surprised to see that the BH200 actually digs deeper than the 17G that I was quoted at $30,000 for. I know the tracks are a game changer for speed, but if I can get the bucker to curl, I'm okay going a little slower.
Once I get my shop built, I will most definitely be purchasing some used beat up equipment that needs some love.

 

[murraya8922]

Hello murraya8922, if you go the owner route on a backhoe or excavtor, 1 way to inprove the stumping ability is to have a "pick/ripper) made for your machine. See "Dirt Ninja" mini ecavator with ripper. This will show you what I am talking about. You can save time by not having to dig dirt, and the single tooth greatly multiplies the diggging force.

Makes complete sense. Similar concept as a stump bucket. I'll look it up now! Thank you.

 

[bdhsfz6]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done?? Manage expectations, but still:
-Dig trenches for power/water lines
-SLOWLY dig stumps
-Little by little pond
-Little by little root cellar
-Footings for barn/house/shop foundation

I have 6.4 acres of heavily wooded raw land that I will be making into a full time homestead from scratch myself. So the BH would get a huge amount of work.
I am buying a Branson 4820H in March. I was quoted $7,500 for the BH. Ballpark an extra $90/month on the loan payment. In my area, a mini ex for a weekend (still work full time, mostly remotely) is ballpark $400 for the weekend. So, about 19 rentals.

If the BH is CAPEABLE of doing things WITH TIME, I would 100% rather take the time and do my projects right, than rent and rush. Not to mention I work on call all over the country, so even scheduling rental is very difficult.

So I guess my main question is: Is a Branson BH250 actually useful when used correctly and personally (no commercial, so length of projects if more or less irrelevant) or would I be better off with a shovel?

Thank you all.

Back in 1979, I was in the exact same situation. Over the years, I've owned several tractors, all with backhoes, and was able to do all of the same tasks you mention except the pond. For that, I'd rent a mini ex.

I was single when I started so I was able to devote all my spare time & $$ to the various projects. IMO. if you have the time and aren't faced with difficult digging conditions, a backhoe should be sufficient for your needs.

I should add that you also encounter many small jobs where a hoe isn't necessary, but is very handy to have around. Little things like small garden jobs or burying a beloved pet can be a time and back saver.

 

[Smokeydog]

The Kubota TLBs are hard to beat. They are real work horses. A work multiplier and labor saving for us.

Used 3pt, subframe, Ford 4500 backhoe, neighbor’s Case 580. Never liked a backhoe on a ag tractor.

The Kubota TLBs are the Goldilocks Swiss Army knife for our farm. Replaced several ag tractors and pieces of construction equipment. Use the backhoes less than 20% of the time. Having high capacity FEL to go with the BH is important. Performance, safety and durability are good investments. Never have bought a new tractor. Just checking the used prices and my equipment has increased in value over the years. Hard to beat in-use value (like living in your home) and asset appreciation. Being able to maintain our property, priceless.

 

[Martin Roper]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done?? Manage expectations, but still:
-Dig trenches for power/water lines
-SLOWLY dig stumps
-Little by little pond
-Little by little root cellar
-Footings for barn/house/shop foundation

I have 6.4 acres of heavily wooded raw land that I will be making into a full time homestead from scratch myself. So the BH would get a huge amount of work.
I am buying a Branson 4820H in March. I was quoted $7,500 for the BH. Ballpark an extra $90/month on the loan payment. In my area, a mini ex for a weekend (still work full time, mostly remotely) is ballpark $400 for the weekend. So, about 19 rentals.

If the BH is CAPEABLE of doing things WITH TIME, I would 100% rather take the time and do my projects right, than rent and rush. Not to mention I work on call all over the country, so even scheduling rental is very difficult.

So I guess my main question is: Is a Branson BH250 actually useful when used correctly and personally (no commercial, so length of projects if more or less irrelevant) or would I be better off with a shovel?

Thank you all.

From my own personal experience having a 2.5 tonne 360' digger is invaluable, it comes in for every thing, moving trailers, straightening thing's, small crane, there just doesn't seem to be a day it is not used for something, it's there, ready for use. However when I relied on a backhoe, admittedly a rather clumsy McConnel it was difficult to use with the limited slew, clumsy to move and tied a tractor up just when you need it on the trailer or what ever. To me it is a a no brainer, look out for as good a second hand machine as you can afford and go for it and never look back. I know it can me difficult to justify on paper or to the Missus but my machine very rarely has a complete day off.

 

[kenbgbill]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done?? Manage expectations, but still:
-Dig trenches for power/water lines
-SLOWLY dig stumps
-Little by little pond
-Little by little root cellar
-Footings for barn/house/shop foundation

I have 6.4 acres of heavily wooded raw land that I will be making into a full time homestead from scratch myself. So the BH would get a huge amount of work.
I am buying a Branson 4820H in March. I was quoted $7,500 for the BH. Ballpark an extra $90/month on the loan payment. In my area, a mini ex for a weekend (still work full time, mostly remotely) is ballpark $400 for the weekend. So, about 19 rentals.

If the BH is CAPEABLE of doing things WITH TIME, I would 100% rather take the time and do my projects right, than rent and rush. Not to mention I work on call all over the country, so even scheduling rental is very difficult.

So I guess my main question is: Is a Branson BH250 actually useful when used correctly and personally (no commercial, so length of projects if more or less irrelevant) or would I be better off with a shovel?

Thank you all.

I have a Kubota BX 25D which includes a chassis mounted backhoe vice a 3-point hitch that came with a standard 12” wide bucket and has a 6’ reach depth. I also own 5 acres of rocky sloped terrain with 4acres of post oak, black jack, and cedar elm. With my little backhoe, I cleared all rocks and stumps for a 750 driveway, cleared/stumped a quarter acre for a barn, and dug a 1000’ trench, 4’ deep for both water and electric. I also have a 4’ box blade for spreading gravel and leveling flat area.

So yes, you can do anything and everything you mention with a smaller machine. Time is the only factor driving the decision. It may take a bit longer at this size, but you will get it done.

 

[jrsavoie]

I'd get an older commercial backhoe for the same money.

I have a 1975 Ford 3550

I paid about $2400 for it over 20 years ago. It's seen a lot of use.
A lighter duty machine would never have held up.

 

[Richard]

Closed thing I could "afford" that could do more than one task was a TLB. I priced out a Kubota L47 TLB at about $60,000 MSRP. Would be such an amazing machine to have, but that is serious $$$.

(I've not read entire thread so this might have been addressed...)

I bought a used JCB 1550-B from my brother in law, who bought it at an auction. I paid something like $13,000 for it. Full sized industrial, digs a two foot bottom at 15 1/2' deep. Been invaluable around here for what I've gotten done with it. I've had some things to maintain on it (new seals for cylinders, tires, other odds & ends) but I've had it now for over 20 years and could probably sell it for what I paid....if not.... it's paid for itself anyway so I could give it away and be money for projects, cash ahead.

An old friend of mine, mocked someone he worked with as THAT guy actually bought a bulldozer..... my friend was rolling his eyes. I might add my friend has always lived in the city and never had a need for a bulldozer.

I look around here and see benefits of me having one but make do with what I've got and take more time doing things.

Go used, git R done at your pace, then sell it.

 

[8ntractorjdx]

I also have not read entire thread
Hi there is one thing you may want to check on. I have a back blade for sale. and a guy with a Branson called and because he had a backhoe subframe on he was limited on the with of the 3 point arms to the point where a standard back blade would not work. I am a plus one on owning a BH there is a considerable amount of work like stumps and brush that can be done a little at time as well. I think I have about as much time on the BH as on the loader bucket.

 

[Shblack]

When we got our place our first machine was a Komatsu WB140 backhoe. With 98hp, a 1.1 yard 4in1 bucket, 4WD and an extend-a-hoe it’s a beast. Have pulled huge trees out of the creek, dug 6’ deep trenches for our geothermal system, stumps - it’s hard to stop. But it is very big, hard to get into tight areas, and at 18,000# the ruts in damp soil are a problem. So we got a Takeuchi TL230 track loader, and it’s my go to machine. Great for spreading dirt and grading (I struggled grading with the Komatsu, couldn’t see what was going on in front of the bucket), put a grapple on it and it’s excellent for brush cleanup, put a auger on it and it makes quick work of drilling holes for 100 trees. So I would suggest looking into a compact track loader, good traction, can work in wet weather without making a big mess, good visibility (everything is right in front of you) and an enormous range of attachments allow you to adapt / grow with your needs and budget. If you contemplate putting a mower / mulcher on it in the future look for a cab machine.

 

[mpsmith60]

I know the "backhoe or not" subject has been discussed many times here. I have read many of the threads. Love all the knowledge here. I seem to read either:
-Everyone is crazy, mine is great
-Waste of money overall

My question is... if I don't expect the BH to be a mini-ex, and I do my projects SLOWLY and CAREFULLY, couldn't I get a lot done??

Sounds like you’ve thought it through well. The bottom line is if you foresee a long string of long-term and quick projects over the years, a backhoe will pay off. I bought a Kubota BH77 backhoe when I got my L3901 five years ago and have literally spent most of the 480 hours using the backhoe along with the front end loader digging trenches for water lines and drain pipes, cutting trails through the woods, digging a small pond, and even installing a septic system, just to name a few projects. It has definitely paid for itself!

 

[MMC]

I've had an old Case 580C (1980) on the farm for over 15 years. It is open station and as someone mentioned, those types are available at a sizeable discount. If it died tomorrow, I'd immediately buy another one. It weighs about 15K or 16K and will pick up 5K in the front bucket (which you will use far more often than you think). The only thing I would probably like to have is 4WD and an Extend-a-Hoe version for the boom.
No, a backhoe will not do everything as fast as you might want, but overall is far more useful than other offerings. The pond...just hire a bulldozer and stand back.
Tall trees are really no problem for a backhoe - you don't normally push with the bucket, you simply cut the root leaders out from the tree and push it over with the boom. Skid it where you want it after.
If the engine, pump, and drive train are sound, all you're going to be replacing are lines and hydraulic seals/packing over the years. When you're finished with your projects, sell it for about what you paid. But I bet you won't. Your tractor is always free to be doing other things without hooking stuff up. And, as an opinion, small machines/tractors with backhoes are not heavy enough and really put some pressure on the prime mover over time.
Good Luck.

 

[Bentrim]

Years ago our neighbor had an underground water leak. He asked my father to come over with a Brantly backhoe mounted on a 400 JD to come over and dig up the pipe. They worked at it for a few hours and hardly scratched the surface. They called me to see if I could borrow my employers 580 Case. Yep yo guessed that 580 was down to the pipe in a few minutes, it took me longer to come and go than actual dig time.
My advise would be to know what you want to do, consider all options then purchase what you feel would do what you want. If it doesn't work out for a smaller unit look for a larger used one, but don't expect to get new price for a used unit. Yes everybody wants one but at a discount price.

 

[ctgoldwing]

As several posters have mentioned its a very personal choice based on what 'you' think you can do with it. I have had 3 previous tractors with backhoes. The only one that could do serious backhoe work was an old Ford 4000. My 1st 2 Kubotas (B7200 and L3400) were both 4wd hst units with appropriately sized backhoes. The Kubotas were useful for trench digging and tree planting. In our rocky area they were often 'overchallenged' when trying to move boulders. If you, like me, want to remove stumps and aren't on the clock, they were just fine. Any decent sized oak stump could take hours with the L3400 where the old Ford could rip them out in 15-20 minutes.
I bought my current L3800 a few years ago and haven't missed the backhoe. A post hole digger, subsoiler and stump bucket have been all I need.

 

[garydc]

I have a Kioti CK20 with loader and Backhoe + other implements. I did trenching, fencing and other jobs for a living with it and a slightly smaller Kubota before the Kioti for about 16 years. I did dig a few addition footings also. Your machine is bigger, so it would probably do a quite few of your jobs without much trouble (maybe not the pond). Just be sure to get a hoe with a subframe not a 3 point hitch model, it will definitely save you some grief.

 

[Budweiser John]

My New Holland TC45 tractor with a sub frame mount BH has more than paid for it self over the 20 years I have owned it.
I built a castered dolly for the BH making it very EZ to put on the tractor and the attachment can be stored in an obsecure corner or the barn when not in use.

would a tracked excavator be a better digging choice? The answer is yes, but who can afford to have that kind of money tied up for an occasional use?

 

[Big Blue Florida]

Our BH offers the needed occasional counter weight. Priceless, so many times.
It has also pushed us out of a stuck situation. Wife sometimes gets into places (in swamp) & there is no going forward. Sometimes I think she does this to renew our marriage vows.

Would never get rid of either of them.

 

[jrsavoie]

When we got our place our first machine was a Komatsu WB140 backhoe. With 98hp, a 1.1 yard 4in1 bucket, 4WD and an extend-a-hoe it’s a beast. Have pulled huge trees out of the creek, dug 6’ deep trenches for our geothermal system, stumps - it’s hard to stop. But it is very big, hard to get into tight areas, and at 18,000# the ruts in damp soil are a problem. So we got a Takeuchi TL230 track loader, and it’s my go to machine. Great for spreading dirt and grading (I struggled grading with the Komatsu, couldn’t see what was going on in front of the bucket), put a grapple on it and it’s excellent for brush cleanup, put a auger on it and it makes quick work of drilling holes for 100 trees. So I would suggest looking into a compact track loader, good traction, can work in wet weather without making a big mess, good visibility (everything is right in front of you) and an enormous range of attachments allow you to adapt / grow with your needs and budget. If you contemplate putting a mower / mulcher on it in the future look for a cab machine.

Didn't know what you meant by a track loader.

I'd call that a skid steer with tracks.

https://www.ritchiespecs.com/model/takeuchi-tl230-series-2-multi-terrain-loader

 

[3Ts]

I have a BH on my ag tractor and agree with all the comments. It's nice to have, but limited in capability. A mini-ex would be nicer for my purposes, but there's the difference in cost that I couldn't justify. It paid for itself in just a couple years.

One other thing - there are 2 types of BH that mount on ag tractors. One is a 3 point hitch mount - you don't really want to go this route and I'm not even sure you can get one any more. Two is a subframe mount that is much sturdier and much less likely to damage your tractor.