Another confused first timer

[rScotty]

Why do you own both Kubota and Deere? Which one do you like best?

Right now our "users" are two JDs and a Kubota. As to "why", it just happened that way. We do tend to buy good low hr. tools instead of new.

The JDs are tough enough to live forever, but the tractor we use daily is the Kubota simply because it is a handy size and more comfortable. That's more because of the model than the brand. If the sizes were different it could just as easily be the other way around.

Good tractors seem to last a very long time. They get old slowly & tend to work tomorrow like they did today. But we no longer make our living with them.

 

[K5lwq]

Ok, I just finished reading all the replies to this thread. Man you guys got really wordy with this one. I would like to see this much thought and detail put into other threads.

Ok, so here's my two cents version of a wordy reply to the original poster. It is good that you are reaching out and asking for advice from people on this forum as this is naturally the first step to take in your journey to finding the "right" tractor for your needs. However, it's just the beginning. As many people here have suggested you need to first begin with figuring out what you want to do with your tractor which will lead you to determine what attachments you want to run and then lead to you finally figuring out how much horsepower and weight you will need to power them. After this has been determined you then need to go to both of your local dealers and sit on the tractor models that fit your needs spec wise. I can tell you from personal experience that this will be enlightening as there is big difference in the quality, ergonomics and feel between those two brands.

Now I want to address all the cliché advice given about shopping a dealer over the brand. That is often times bad advice that fails to address many other complexities in the buying process. It also fails to take into account many of the real world realities that exist in a imperfect world such as what if you live in a town where you don't have any good dealers to buy from? What are you going to do then? Hoodoo the reality about the tractor market is this: It's in realty what's referred to in business and economics class as a duopoly. There are only two brands that control the lion share of the market which is Deere and Kubota and all the other brands are a far distant third. South Korean tractor manufactures are just selling on price. If you look closely you will find that they have a history of not meeting their basic warranty obligations, have bad parts support, have bad resale value and have a sparse selection of dealers to choose from. They have been trying to break into the US market for years and as Jeff pointed out earlier they have hardly made a dent. Why? If they were offering something better and cheaper then Deere and Kubota they would have won a lot more market share then they actually have but I digress. Prices on compact tractors are very high because as I stated earlier it's a duopoly. If Ford and Massey Ferguson had of stayed in the market and not sold out in the late 1980's we would all have more choices and prices would reflect that but we don't so you only really have two brands to choose from.

Some have suggested buying used. Used tractors are way overpriced right now and for what you would pay for a used one you could go out and purchase a new one and get a 6-8 year warranty. Also used equipment is nothing at all like used automobiles. It's a totally different animal. You have far more risk buying used equipment then you do used automobiles. One of the reasons for this is due to the fact there are not as many tractors sold as there are automobiles which means you don't have the same choice and access to third party repair shops that you do with cars. And if something goes wrong with that used tractor that you don't have the ability to fix you just paid the dealership's rent and light bill that month. You don't ever want to be in that position if you can avoid it.

I think the tough reality that you are starting to face is you purchased a piece of rural property with some acreage and now you're starting to figure out that it's not cheap to own and maintain it. You would not be the first to be a little shell shocked by the real cost of ownership to have the privilege of living out on some land. It's a cowboy dream many of us have but few of us like paying for. I wish you well in your journey to buying your first tractor and I believe with enough research and study you will make the right choice.

I do not understand how some people equate a small market share to not a good product. A company can be a excellent company and have a excellent product but only have a small part of the market share. Also to think that Massey and New Holland are not major players is ridiculous.

When you go out to eat, do you only go to the big chain restaurants? What about automobiles? What is Tesla's market share compared to Ford or Chevy? It just is not a reflection on quality or anything else.

And for some reason, Mahindra is the No1 selling tractor in the world but they do not make your list.

There is a bunch of good quality tractors out there made by different manufacturers. Good luck to the OP with his hunt.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I do not understand how some people equate a small market share to not a good product. A company can be a excellent company and have a excellent product but only have a small part of the market share. Also to think that Massey and New Holland are not major players is ridiculous.

When you go out to eat, do you only go to the big chain restaurants? What about automobiles? What is Tesla's market share compared to Ford or Chevy? It just is not a reflection on quality or anything else.

And for some reason, Mahindra is the No1 selling tractor in the world but they do not make your list.

There is a bunch of good quality tractors out there made by different manufacturers. Good luck to the OP with his hunt.

K5, there is an old saying, "the cream always rises to the top". How do you think companies get that kind of market share? The answer is they earned it. There are no underdogs in the business world. You earn the reputation you get.

 

[K5lwq]

K5, there is an old saying, "the cream always rises to the top". How do you think companies get that kind of market share? The answer is they earned it. There are no underdogs in the business world. You earn the reputation you get.

Yes cream rises to the top of fresh milk. After it has been processed it does not rise to the top anymore. And some people, for which I do not understand, want skim milk. No cream at all.

In my case, price was not even a consideration. I went to Kubota first. I wanted a geared CUT with direct injection and no ECM. Kubota did not offer a geared tractor at all in a CUT. All the others that did had ECM. The only tractor that met the requirements I had was Branson. After I found what I wanted, then I asked about the price.

If market share is the cream then Kubota is like 5th in the tractor market. Massey and New Holland both sell more units than them. At least according to all the information I can find. Market share is a secret in the tractor industry for some reason.

 

[Torvy]

K5, there is an old saying, "the cream always rises to the top". How do you think companies get that kind of market share? The answer is they earned it. There are no underdogs in the business world. You earn the reputation you get.

I would give you this example. Budweiser is not nearly the best beer in the country. Even if you expand it out to all of their brands. Marketing and business strategy have more to do with success than superior product. Sure, they 'earned' it, but not in the way you imply. Toyota used to be considered a junk brand. Now they have the most respected brand in terms of reliability and resale in the market. Their vehicles changed, but the key to their success was marketing. That is not to say you can have a bad product and market it to #1, usually, but the 'best' in terms of sales is, in my experience, not usually the best product.

 

[nwut05]

I will admit i have not read all of the post's in this thread, however as a multiple tractor owner and part/full time farmer i would offer my 2 cents. no matter where you live as you drive around pay attention to people working tractors in your area. This does not mean go buy what you see the most of....it only means that if you see Kubota, Deere, New Holland, LS brands and so on those are most likely the brands in your area that have a dealer and service dept. there. Now with that being said, if while driving around, all you see is Northern Tool Chinese tractors. Good Luck! and Drive a Different Road from now on lol.....

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I will admit i have not read all of the post's in this thread, however as a multiple tractor owner and part/full time farmer i would offer my 2 cents. no matter where you live as you drive around pay attention to people working tractors in your area. This does not mean go buy what you see the most of....it only means that if you see Kubota, Deere, New Holland, LS brands and so on those are most likely the brands in your area that have a dealer and service dept. there. Now with that being said, if while driving around, all you see is Northern Tool Chinese tractors. Good Luck! and Drive a Different Road from now on lol.....

"Now with that being said, if while driving around, all you see is Northern Tool Chinese tractors. Good Luck! and Drive a Different Road from now on lol....."

 

[DGZRT]

I will admit that if I was farming and working fields that needed High PTO HP I would be in a different Tractor ! If a person needs a compact tractor and the most he might be using the PTO for is mowing with a Brush hog I would look at the Second tier brands .
I'm lucky enough to know a very good Diesel Mechanic that would work for cash if I have a problem . If your not mechanically inclined and will not perform any service on your own then I would look the nearest dealership for the size of Tractor you need . I will be curious to know what you end up with . Keep doing your research and let us know how it turns out !

 

[paulfun9]

You get what you pay for. Stick to a brand with some history and a serious presence in your area stay away from economy brands and keep it Deere Massey new Holland or kubota if you want to be able to get parts and have some resale on your machine. These guys that go no name China and Korea brands and going to all be complaining in 10 years when they can’t get parts for the cheap tractor

How about some examples from you wide range of experiance?

 

[paulfun9]

I’ll share a little but I’m a Nubie at tractors. My wife inherited 113 acres and a cabin . Her dad battled cancer off and on for 5/6 years . Not much was done to the land in this time so when we got it the work was plentiful!!
After paying a contractor almost 11k for some cleanup we quickly came to a conclusion we need better equipment. I’m still working with kids in college so money is tight. I did about 9 months of research and came up with three brands of tractors . Kioti, LS, Branson.

The Branson won out because the dealer was close . I chose a 25hp 2515H . I think I’ve made an awesome choice. I only have 48 hours on it but I’ve done more in 6 weekends then I did all last summer. Some of the good things . A tier 4 non regen motor without fancy computers running everything. A good diesel mechanic can work on it , don’t need a dealer.

3 gear hydrostatic trans
2100 lb lift on loader
7 year warranty. This is why you need a close dealer.
One of the heaviest in it’s class
Awesome seat fully adjustable and hydraulic.
quick attach bucket
Cruise control
There is much more I’m just getting long winded.
With the money I’ve saved I bought the third function for a grapple and a box blade.
I might not have awesome resale but I sure have a nice tractor

Good luck and keep us updated!

Take decent care of it and when it comes time to sell it tell those who try to lowball you to keep walking! Price it fairly in the same percentage of the JD, Kubota for sale and you will find that you won’t loose anymore on it than them at time of sale.
When I buy cheep and try to sell at a bigger profit margins I am always waiting for someone who drank the coolaid and believes the crap that everything else is substandard. They are the only ones who give thier money up without a fight!

 

[paulfun9]

I do not understand how some people equate a small market share to not a good product. A company can be a excellent company and have a excellent product but only have a small part of the market share. Also to think that Massey and New Holland are not major players is ridiculous.

When you go out to eat, do you only go to the big chain restaurants? What about automobiles? What is Tesla's market share compared to Ford or Chevy? It just is not a reflection on quality or anything else.

And for some reason, Mahindra is the No1 selling tractor in the world but they do not make your list.

There is a bunch of good quality tractors out there made by different manufacturers. Good luck to the OP with his hunt.

Half of the reason that some of the other brands can’t break more firmly into the market is due to the naysayers who just repeat over and over again the same garbage they have been spoon fed for years.

My favorite is when the uneducated say things like they didn’t see the quality as being the same but yet have no real understanding of the processes needed to ensure quality and no clue the quality parts needed for longevity are not the parts we can see when we visit the dealer to start looking.

I will say loudly that my Kioti has been the best tractor purchase out of all brands I have owned over the years and that includes a lot of years of experiance going back long before Kubota was even a real player. I can actually remember some folks back then saying some of the same things about them then as they do now about other brands. The only real difference then was more people were smart enough not to listen to bull crap, propaganda, and statements that clearly showed the persons ego needs uplifting and support.

 

[Hoodoo]

I think the tough reality that you are starting to face is you purchased a piece of rural property with some acreage and now you're starting to figure out that it's not cheap to own and maintain it. You would not be the first to be a little shell shocked by the real cost of ownership to have the privilege of living out on some land. It's a cowboy dream many of us have but few of us like paying for. I wish you well in your journey to buying your first tractor and I believe with enough research and study you will make the right choice.

Thank you for your long and well thought out reply. I really appreciate all of the thought that you guys have put into my 'problem'

I just wanted to respond to the final part of your post - we had a smaller country property before and knew exactly what we were getting into. As a matter of fact the wife and I both relish the lifestyle and the tasks a great deal. I knew a tractor was on the horizon a long time ago, Its just trying to figure out a) the right one, and b) how to wisely afford it

As of right now, I think I am leaning towards Kubota - simply because they have the nearest dealership, and it has a very good reputation around here. If I were closer to a big city, I would get a Branson based on bang for the buck, but that dealer is 2 hours away.....

I know I need a front loader, a rear box, and a brush hog. And a good tractor to attach them to......

 

[deereman75]

The only two brands I would consider are Deere and Kubota.
You spend more up front but they hold their value.
You can buy a brand new Kubota, use it for a few years, and sell it with 2-300 hours for about the same as you paid for it today.

One of the Chinese/Korean/Indian brands you are paying less up front, but you have a lesser machine and you WILL be loosing money if you ever decide to sell it.

It is probably obvious where my color loyalty is, and most of the tractors I've owned are green. But for what it's worth I'm looking at adding a subcompact next year and intend to buy a Kubota... I deal a lot with a big Kubota dealer near me, and have spent quite a bit of time in their shop, seen a number of the models split in half or stripped apart, ect. On the tractors in the size range you would be looking at, the Kubotas seem to be substantially better built where it counts.
I like the control layout and overall operators station more on the Deere. But the Kubota certainly seems like a machine that you'd be able to keep running a lot longer than the equivalent Deere.

The other bit of input I have is that unless you really think you need more, keep it to 26hp or less. Like a BX2680 or B2601. They just slip under the cutoff for emissions so you avoid the often troublesome EGR and DPF systems.
They even still have a mechanical fuel injection pump like my old Deeres and construction equipment. That is a very big selling point to me.

 

[rScotty]

Thank you for your long and well thought out reply. I really appreciate all of the thought that you guys have put into my 'problem'

I just wanted to respond to the final part of your post - we had a smaller country property before and knew exactly what we were getting into. As a matter of fact the wife and I both relish the lifestyle and the tasks a great deal. I knew a tractor was on the horizon a long time ago, Its just trying to figure out a) the right one, and b) how to wisely afford it

As of right now, I think I am leaning towards Kubota - simply because they have the nearest dealership, and it has a very good reputation around here. If I were closer to a big city, I would get a Branson based on bang for the buck, but that dealer is 2 hours away.....

I know I need a front loader, a rear box, and a brush hog. And a good tractor to attach them to......

That makes sense. Hard to go wrong with a local dealer who has a good rep and sells Kubotas.
You will often find that a given model of tractor will have a choice of two loaders. Unless you have unusual requirements, you should get heavier duty loader with SSQS, a bolt on cutting edge, and some reinforced chain hooks + chain. You will eventually accumulate a number of implements. And you will probably find that used ones work pretty much the same as new implements... and that all implements benefit from basic maintenance.
Good luck,
rScotty

 

[deereman75]

The other thing I would personally add is skip the mower attachment, and spend the little bit extra to get a standalone zero turn.
I got a lightly used Kubota 54" zero turn (a trade in from the dealer) for about what a 3pt finish mower costs.
Having previously mowed everything with an 84" finish mower there is no comparison.... The smaller zero turn will do the same area in well under half the time. Mainly due to no wasted time turning around, no overlapping, ect. Also able to eliminate any push mower work, and greatly reduce weed whacker time going to the zero turn.

It's another machine, but you're also putting less hours on your much more expensive tractor that way. Extra resale value without 10 years worth of mowing hours could very well pay for the zero turn.

 

[k0ua]

I have owned 5 tractors since I started down tractor road in 1992 after I wore out a couple of garden tractors in a hurry trying to mow and keep up the land I had then. They have been in order a 2360 Long, a New Holland TC33da (then made by Shibaura) than a Kubota B7500 DT and a Kubota L3400 Hydrostatic, and Now my present tractor a Kioti DK35se Hydrostat. They have all worked pretty well and did most of the things I needed done at the time.

While I have over 500 hours on the Kioti, I haven't put many on in the last couple of years as all of the big jobs around here have been taken care of. Of all of the tractors I have owned, I like the Kioti the best. It is the most refined and best equipped tractor i have owned.

But if the Kubota dealership was the only close one as in your case, I would probably lean to the Kubota also. Most likely what ever brand or model you choose will probably be fine for you and do the work you want to do.

I could go on about making sure you get enough tractor to do what you want to do, and things like getting SSQA so you can change front implements easily and getting things like extendable rear 3point arms to make hook up easier, and making sure you have at least one rear remote, but a lot of this you won't fully understand at first, and besides you can learn the hard way, just like the rest of us did. Good luck in your tractor journey.

 

[Hoodoo]

I looked up Kioti near Prescott and found these guys 1-1/2 hrs away..... what are the groups opinions?

https://www.shoppok.com/prescott/a,50,203209,2020-KIOTI-CX2510H-TL-25HP-HYSTAT-4X4-Tractor-GEAR-UP-OFFER--249-mo----18490--We-Deliver-to-You--.htm

 

[rScotty]

You asked for opinions, so here is one:

Ask both dealers if they have a service truck so that they can come to you if necessary. Or do they offer trailering - especially during warranty. Both of those things are often the mark of a dealership with a more professional service dept.
And then ask both for some customer references...neighbors you can talk to.
rScotty

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

I looked up Kioti near Prescott and found these guys 1-1/2 hrs away..... what are the groups opinions?

https://www.shoppok.com/prescott/a,50,203209,2020-KIOTI-CX2510H-TL-25HP-HYSTAT-4X4-Tractor-GEAR-UP-OFFER--249-mo----18490--We-Deliver-to-You--.htm

I was dealing with them way back about 4 years ago.... answered all of my questions, no pressure, and made a really good deal. Unfortunately, another dealer (LS dealer) made a better deal.

Just for info, my dealer is over 10 hours (550 miles) away from me. I have never had to take either of my 2 LS tractors back to the dealer for anything. There were a couple of minor things with my second one, which the dealer took care of without question and shipped me the parts. He even threw in some goodies like a radiator genie set just for my trouble.

Locally, there is Kubota, JD, Mahindra, and NH. The Kubota dealer was down right arrogant and I felt like he couldn't be bothered to make my sale. The JD dealer was the same. They were both charging 15% MORE than the "build your tractor" price on the corporate websites. The Mahindra dealer was a long time mom and pop dealership, but they set their prices high like the others. The NH dealer was over an hour away, but again seemed like I was bothering them, and the prices weren't competitive.

Then I found LS (who makes the NH tractors), I saved over $7500 going with LS vs. the same identical NH. I didn't look back.....

Oh, and for the argument about resale.... I sold my first LS after 2 years and 220 hours for $500 bucks less than I paid for it! I am sure that not everyone will be able to sell so easily, especially if they are in a predominantly orange or green area......

Just my 2 cents......

 

[paulfun9]

The only two brands I would consider are Deere and Kubota.
You spend more up front but they hold their value.
You can buy a brand new Kubota, use it for a few years, and sell it with 2-300 hours for about the same as you paid for it today.

One of the Chinese/Korean/Indian brands you are paying less up front, but you have a lesser machine and you WILL be loosing money if you ever decide to sell it.

It is probably obvious where my color loyalty is, and most of the tractors I've owned are green. But for what it's worth I'm looking at adding a subcompact next year and intend to buy a Kubota... I deal a lot with a big Kubota dealer near me, and have spent quite a bit of time in their shop, seen a number of the models split in half or stripped apart, ect. On the tractors in the size range you would be looking at, the Kubotas seem to be substantially better built where it counts.
I like the control layout and overall operators station more on the Deere. But the Kubota certainly seems like a machine that you'd be able to keep running a lot longer than the equivalent Deere.

The other bit of input I have is that unless you really think you need more, keep it to 26hp or less. Like a BX2680 or B2601. They just slip under the cutoff for emissions so you avoid the often troublesome EGR and DPF systems.
They even still have a mechanical fuel injection pump like my old Deeres and construction equipment. That is a very big selling point to me.

Please bring you tractor over and show me how you determine I have a lesser machine?
Again just more bull crap spoon fed to the unknowing easily manipulated mind!

By the way you also don’t carry more value!
You pay up front a higher cost and sell for about the same percentage less than someone who paid less to begin with and sells for about the same percentage less. This means the only difference is how much you have tied up in the machine while you have it.