Another confused first timer

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I never go to my dealer, but do sometimes call and have his mobile service truck and mechanic come out.

What do you have them do? Repair work?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Some of the low end John Deere's DO have aluminum rear ends instead of cast iron like most CUTS. The Low end JD's are REALLY low end. Corners cut to meet a price point.

You have to understand how Deere thinks to understand it. It's like they took all the basic elements that make up a tractor eg Weight, Power, Size, Transmission, PTO type and Options and then put it on a chopping block and figured out how to commoditize each of those elements where they would create enough differences between the models to push the consumer up to the next model/trim level. By building the 3E series tractors with an aluminum frame they made it so light that it created a limited range of use types for that tractor which will push a lot of buyers out of that tractor into the much more expensive 3R series tractors. That's why I wrote in another thread about Deere that the choices Deere offers the consumer is just an illusion. Those cheaper options would not work for the vast majority of people out there. You can see what little confidence Deere has in certain options/bells & whistles when you look at how they self sabotaged their 3D tractors with a transmission driven PTO. I think they literally developed that tractor with the intention of not selling any just to use it as a leader item to lure people into the dealerships and do a bait and switch.

 

[Torvy]

A lot of good points. Whenever I look at a package deal, I assume the implements will be the cheapest versions that they can find. That way, when I compare prices, I take the most conservative view. Maybe you get lucky and they have quality implements...to me, that's just gravy. As for the marketing language, you see it everywhere if you look. Think of bleach, they compare themselves to cleaning without bleach rather than to other brands of bleach.

You could try to pin them down by asking for a list of makes/models of implements to be included, in writing.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

The main thing if you turn the drive shaft one time and the blades turn two times. Cheap cutters only turn 1 1/2 to 1 because gear reduction costs money. That's why some rear shredders or Bush hogs cut like a mower and some knock it over.

 

[rScotty]

What do you have them do? Repair work?

Lets see....it used to be things I couldn't do myself. Last year it was replacing the engine computer in the John Deere. I did the trouble-shooting and it came down to the computer. That computer is a known trouble point - it's exposed to engine heat and fluids - and tends to go out at about 5000 hrs/10 years. So mine was overdue.
Note that this is a pre-emissions engine with a independent mechanical injectors. Not common rail.

It's only 4 bolts and a connector, but apparently the fuel computer has to be reprogrammed by JD for each machine. The mechanic did all that. $2500 bucks.

Another time he replaced a leaky main suction hose from the hydraulic reservoir to hydraulic pump on that same Deere 310. It's a heavy, nasty job laying under the tractor and I am just getting a bit old for that. $500 bucks. Plus hose, plus 20 gallons Hyd. fluid.

Each time it costs me about $200 for his driving time to my place. I think it is a deal, and he is one real good mechanic. Ex aviation mech.

Do you have a similar dealer service where you are?
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

A lot of good points. Whenever I look at a package deal, I assume the implements will be the cheapest versions that they can find. That way, when I compare prices, I take the most conservative view. Maybe you get lucky and they have quality implements...to me, that's just gravy. As for the marketing language, you see it everywhere if you look. Think of bleach, they compare themselves to cleaning without bleach rather than to other brands of bleach.

You could try to pin them down by asking for a list of makes/models of implements to be included, in writing.

I agree. Implements are nice to have, most of us TBNers end up with a row of them. When you get right down to it, a tractor without an implement is just a slow and lonely way to drive around.

That's the beauty of the universal 3pt hitch and universal PTO. Implements are almost all 3pt hitch style. And new or old, every 3pt implement made will fit right up to every 3pt on every tractor. BTW, consider upgrading to telescoping arms and rigid side swing limiters (instead of chains) on any 3pt if offered.

Implements tend to look old and beat up quickly from being dragged through the dirt, but they usually outlast tractors and are easily maintained with available parts. Mid-mount mowers might be the exception, but they aren't 3pt. The point being that used 3pt implements needing paint and some straightening are often available at a fraction of the cost of new. So it comes down to how you feel about new vs used.
The point is not to let the implements influence the tractor decision too much.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

The main thing if you turn the drive shaft one time and the blades turn two times. Cheap cutters only turn 1 1/2 to 1 because gear reduction costs money. That's why some rear shredders or Bush hogs cut like a mower and some knock it over.

Interesting. So what you're talking about here is blade tip speed or spindle speed.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Lets see....it used to be things I couldn't do myself. Last year it was replacing the engine computer in the John Deere. I did the trouble-shooting and it came down to the computer. That computer is a known trouble point - it's exposed to engine heat and fluids - and tends to go out at about 5000 hrs/10 years. So mine was overdue.
Note that this is a pre-emissions engine with a independent mechanical injectors. Not common rail.

It's only 4 bolts and a connector, but apparently the fuel computer has to be reprogrammed by JD for each machine. The mechanic did all that. $2500 bucks.

Another time he replaced a leaky main suction hose from the hydraulic reservoir to hydraulic pump on that same Deere 310. It's a heavy, nasty job laying under the tractor and I am just getting a bit old for that. $500 bucks. Plus hose, plus 20 gallons Hyd. fluid.

Each time it costs me about $200 for his driving time to my place. I think it is a deal, and he is one real good mechanic. Ex aviation mech.

Do you have a similar dealer service where you are?
rScotty

I have tried to get mobile mechanic service out where I am. That's all I have ever gotten with my forklift but with zero turns and tractors they always want to take them back to their shop claiming that they won't have the part or the necessary tools to do the repair on site or will have to diagnose the problem first and then make the repair. So I am curious how you are handling this?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Implements tend to look old and beat up quickly from being dragged through the dirt, but they usually outlast tractors and are easily maintained with available parts. Mid-mount mowers might be the exception, but they aren't 3pt. The point being that used 3pt implements needing paint and some straightening are often available at a fraction of the cost of new. So it comes down to how you feel about new vs used.
The point is not to let the implements influence the tractor decision too much.

I will add to this that it also depends on the type of implement and where you live. Flail mowers for example is a type of implement that I would not advise someone like the OP to purchase second hand unless they know what they're getting themselves into and have the tools and skills to make repairs. Depending on where you live, some of these shortline manufacturers may not have a local dealer near you to make repairs if you purchased something used.

 

[rScotty]

I have tried to get mobile mechanic service out where I am. That's all I have ever gotten with my forklift but with zero turns and tractors they always want to take them back to their shop claiming that they won't have the part or the necessary tools to do the repair on site or will have to diagnose the problem first and then make the repair. So I am curious how you are handling this?

Well, I haven't had that problem so I don't know how I would handle it.

Generally since I have to schedule when the mobile unit is to be sent out that means I've already talked with the service manager and between the two of us we've got a pretty good idea of what is going to be involved and if the mobile unit makes sense.

Obviously that requires a service manager who is himself a master mechanic in every way. So again we come down to mobile service being the mark of a professional shop.

The JD mobile truck is pretty well equipped with hundreds of common spares, welding, generator, small crane, hydraulic tester, and computer diagnostics. He usually manages to talk me into some routine maintenance as well. I'm not too hard to convince on that. Nice to have someone else do all the scut work and then clean up and take the old fluids away.

We've had a couple of independent auto mechanics try to start up similar services, but so far none have succeeded. I understand that the RV industry has some successful mobile service trucks in big cities. Never used them, though.
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

Interesting. So what you're talking about here is blade tip speed or spindle speed.

I hadn't heard that argument about gear reduction and cost of gearing. That's a new one on me, too. Although I agree that spinning blades faster makes for a smoother cut. It also makes the grass stand up to be cut.

Something else we know is that stresses go up at the square of velocity, so designing something to spin faster always costs more. And it can be quite a bit more $$ for a fairly modest increase in rotational speed.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

We've had a couple of independent auto mechanics try to start up similar services, but so far none have succeeded.

What I have personally found with using them is they are never as good as the dealer. They are not thorough and even make bad recommendations and they still charge a lot of money to do very mediocre work. My advice: Go with the dealer of your equipment.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Something else we know is that stresses go up at the square of velocity, so designing something to spin faster always costs more. And it can be quite a bit more $$ for a fairly modest increase in rotational speed.

I also did not know that. Thanks for the insight Scotty.

 

[LouNY]

What I have personally found with using them is they are never as good as the dealer. They are not thorough and even make bad recommendations and they still charge a lot of money to do very mediocre work. My advice: Go with the dealer of your equipment.

I'm glad ours are not that poor. Most do the same or better quality work for less money.

 

[Hoodoo]

Great insight guys, thank you.

FYI, I called and left a message for this guy Monday afternoon......haven't heard back yet. Maybe they don't need business from a small potatoes like me....?

 

[rScotty]

I'm glad ours are not that poor. Most do the same or better quality work for less money.

That's about the way the mobile auto mechanics are here. Most of their work is routine maintenance or nearly so. They and their service trucks aren't nearly as sophisticated as the mobile tractor mechanics.

The auto guys stick to basic work rather than dealer-type specialized work.
For that kind of work they do a good job, often better than the dealer and as you say for less money.

I'm kind of surprised they haven't become more popular. Maybe it's because there are still plenty of inexpensive neighborhood small garages.

 

[rScotty]

Great insight guys, thank you.

FYI, I called and left a message for this guy Monday afternoon......haven't heard back yet. Maybe they don't need business from a small potatoes like me....?

Do you know if they actually have those tractors and implements on site at their dealership? That would tell you a lot. Might even be worth a trip there. If they are close enough to consider spending 20K with, shouldn't they they be close enough for a visit?

It could be that they have a few machines - or none at all & are trying to gauge interest before putting in an order with their supplier.

Or maybe he is so busy delivering tractors he hasn't gotten back yet.
rScotty

 

[Hoodoo]

Their picture shows dozens of them....they wouldn't fake a picture would they?

 

[TexasDigger]

Scope all dealers within 50mile radius of you to see what your service/repair options are first. You don't have to buy local but you will always want to have repairs/parts/etc within short distance. Kioti, LS, Branson, TYM, & Mahindra would probably be the frontrunners. So far, I've owned two Kiotis and love them. I actually preferred LS, but my Kioti dealer was WAY closer if I need any parts or repairs that I can't manage myself. Convenience of your dealer will be a factor like it or not unfortunately. Branson & TYM are probably the least expensive in the lineup but both make good tractors; followed by LS/Kioti. I steered away from TYM when I bought my compact because at the time they only came with Yanmar engines that basically required a dealer to diagnose - I believe many of the new TYM's come with Kukje engines now so these would also be a STRONG contender!). Mahindra is also solid but will usually be a smidge more in price. Poke around on craigslist and see if any of your local dealers offer package deals (including a trailer if you need one to haul in for maintenance/repairs etc). After you find the best 24-29HP tractor that fits your needs at the right price - pop on it. My personal rule is: "If you can put a belly-mower on it, it's an overpriced lawnmower!" but depending on your property, one of the sub-compacts may work for you. On 25-29hp compacts, you're probably not going to get a full package with trailer for under 20k though.

If you want any implements other than the tractor/loader/trailer - usually better to bundle up front instead of later since you can typically get a better deal when you package in some other basic necessities besides just the tractor/loader/trailer (box blade [BB], rotary cutter [RC], post hole digger [PHD], tiller, etc.) - And don't forget the pallet forks - ABSOLUTE LIFE SAVER! For that size tractor you can find a cheap middle buster for <$200 all day online so no need to finance that (very handy for running new underground electric/water lines etc). You may also find a better deal on a RC or BB used on CL (have found many smaller units <$500 each). If you ever think you will need a backhoe... weigh out the cost to buy Vs. rental in the long run. If any neighbors own one - have as many BBQ's as possible & make good friends with them! I've found that I definitely need one and will be getting one soon after considering the numerous times I've had to hand dig halfway to China!

 

[DieselBound]

I have an 18 year old 30 horse kubota, a 6 year old 50 horse kubota, a 8 year old kubota rtv, a 4 year old 75 horse kubota compact tract loader and a 3 year old branson 78 horse tractor. If i had it to do over the last tractor would have been a kubota. Everything but one tractor and the RTV were bought from different dealers.

The kubota’s have been flawless and I do abuse them. My father has a kubota BX also and loves it.

i have no connection to kubota but do live in TN so I am partial to orange. Lol

Would that "last" tractor be the B7800?

1,800+ hrs on my B7800. Life would have been easy if it had only seen 5 acres: I've got 40 and it was total crap- 10' high grasses and LOTS of logging and tree debris, not to mention blackberries.

My Kioti (about 750 hrs on it now) has done everything that I'd expected/needed it to do and has been very reliable once some early hiccups got taken care of by the dealer.