Another Septic System cost/alternatives thread

[Finnster]

My septic is getting old and performs marginally in the winter when the ground is wet and saturated. Summer months have been fine.

We have a 40 yo underground system. 1000 gal 1-stage concrete tank feeding a leach field of perf pipe buried in gravel. Fair amount of sludge build up. We have poor draining clay soil as well. Test pits showed value of 17 to 21 IIRC. The current system is deep also. The Dbox was about 4-5 ft deep.

We've been in the house a year, and this was known as part of the purchase.

A septic company inspected/designed and permitted a sandmound system w/ new 1500 gal poly tank, but the quotes to build the system are around $25K. Seems way higher than many others I've seen here. The sand mound will require a pump in the tank. Old tank will be abandoned and filled with gravel.

Is this more normal to my area (SE PA), a completely off base #, or what? I think this was for 700gal/day or so. (5 bdrm house.)

Lastly, I guess below grade options are off the table due to perk tests and the water table height.

I really do not want to shell out that sort of $$ for a pooper, get a giant useless mound in my yard, and be on the hook for a generator/backup to run the pump in case of power failure.

"Repair" of the system is not possible through official channels if you know what I mean. Seems like digging up a line or two, or adding a new line would be preferrable.

Any thoughts about just updating the tank to a multi-stage tank to cut down on the passed solids?

Thanks

 

[dmccarty]

The soil in my area stinks for perking which, ironically, is why we were able to buy our land. The land did not perk well enough for a subdivision but it perked well enough for us to get our house. However, we had to escalate the incompetent at best, local inspector to the state regarding his perk evaluation. I learned quite a bit ASAP about the state perc regulations. We had to buy our land, which cost more than the house we were living in, without a perc permit and with the county denying the permit.

The NC extension office has quite a bit of information on septic systems. Somewhere online I found the NC septic regulation which is quite detailed. It actually has specifications for building an outhouse. This information was critical in our buying of our land because it allowed me to evaluate the competence of the local inspector and told me what I could do about the idiot.

In NC, tanks should be designed so they have enough capacity to last a few days without needing to be pumped.

Once you know the regulations and the specifications its not too hard to figure out if the contractor's price is fair.

Later,
Dan

 

[teejk]

That cost seems high. Here in Wisconsin (very tough standards) a new conventional below grade system cost me about $7,000 3 years ago which by code included a 3 chamber 1,500 gal tank (sized for a 4 BR house), pump/alarm and drain field. I hear that mound systems can be a little pricier because they require a special sand but I can't believe it is that much more. Here I think we also have a "at grade" option which cost wise is supposed to be in the middle.

 

[plowking]

We have had pretty good luck by uncovering the top or end of leachfield and letting it sit open to allow the air flow to clean the contaminated soil. Also jetting the leachlines and maybe adding an oxidizer may help the system. Any system that has more then 18 inches of soil on top should have the leachfield and or distribution box vented. Water softener discharge should be seperated from septic,the discharge of salt and minerals is bad for system. I find newer technology leachfields (enviro,eljen,geoflow) have more trouble if they aren't vented and the fabric around the system gets easily clogged. plowking

 

[doxford jim]

Don't know what your land situation is, but If you have the land (over say 10 acres) I would consider a septic lagoon. It sound terrible but is really not too bad. The liquid evaporates off and the lagoon is sized to the house (number of bedrooms).
I had a sand mound installed (cost $22,000) and the whole system failed within eight months. As I am on clay soil and the clay supported a lagoon, the replacement system is a lagoon and it works well.
I won't go into the details of my complete fuster cluck, but the lagoon is relatively problem free - so far (six years).
Check out your options - if you have the land, don't use a sand mound.
HTH
Jim

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I just put one in. Pressurized sand mound. 120' chambers $17 each, 2 chamber poly tank at $1400, 4/10 hp high head pump, installed it myself with my Kubota B2620.

My biggest cost was having hauled in the graded C-33 sand for the mound and sandy loam for the cover as I live +1 hour from the nearest village that has this material available. This is spec'ed material required to pass inspection on a new system in my area.

1600 sq foot total area and sand mound itself was 10'*42' utilizing 3 lines. Holes 3/16" spaced 4' apart gave me a 20" squirt test.

Total cost was 40% what the local contractors were quoting.

total material cost came in at $6,000 including pvc/abs/tank/pump, hauled in material etc....

My soil tested out at 96.4% sand at 3' depth

 

[Pete Judd]

When we put the in-laws in in 95 the cost of a "mound system" was about 10K. When we sold the 5 ac parcel a few years ago the cost of their system was about 15K. We are grand fathered in on a gravity system and I figured it will last to my last days.

 

[Finnster]

Thanks for all the replys.

I just put one in. Pressurized sand mound. 120' chambers $17 each, 2 chamber poly tank at $1400, 4/10 hp high head pump, installed it myself with my Kubota B2620.

My biggest cost was having hauled in the graded C-33 sand for the mound and sandy loam for the cover as I live +1 hour from the nearest village that has this material available. This is spec'ed material required to pass inspection on a new system in my area.

1600 sq foot total area and sand mound itself was 10'*42' utilizing 3 lines. Holes 3/16" spaced 4' apart gave me a 20" squirt test.

Total cost was 40% what the local contractors were quoting.

total material cost came in at $6,000 including pvc/abs/tank/pump, hauled in material etc....

My soil tested out at 96.4% sand at 3' depth

How would you rate the construction difficulty? Looking at my plans, it looks rather straightforward, just a bit time-consuming based on all the sand to move, etc. Your system seems spec'd close to mine, tho mine might be a bit larger based on the poor soil drainage here. I have to look at the plans again, but I'm pretty sure its longer than 42'.

Looked absurdly big when it was staked out for permitting approval.

 

[Finnster]

So the preferred course of action is restoring my underground current system.

I talked a local company, and they recc'd having the system hydrojetted (fancy pressure wash and backflush) to clean out the sludge/solids, then seeded with bacteria for bioremidiation of the remainder.
Total cost should be ~$2000. I can dig up my own Dbox for some savings.

My FIL had the bioremediation done on a 50yo failing leachfield with great resorts. I'd much prefer to go this route and save my system. Has anyone else had this done? Comments?

 

[plowking]

So the preferred course of action is restoring my underground current system.

I talked a local company, and they recc'd having the system hydrojetted (fancy pressure wash and backflush) to clean out the sludge/solids, then seeded with bacteria for bioremidiation of the remainder.
Total cost should be ~$2000. I can dig up my own Dbox for some savings.

My FIL had the bioremediation done on a 50yo failing leachfield with great resorts. I'd much prefer to go this route and save my system. Has anyone else had this done? Comments?

Sounds good to me but I would still add venting to the end of leachlines and a shorter vent at the box. Lack of oxygen is a big problem that causes the leachfield to turn anaerobic from aerobic. plowking

 

[Finnster]

Sounds good to me but I would still add venting to the end of leachlines and a shorter vent at the box. Lack of oxygen is a big problem that causes the leachfield to turn anaerobic from aerobic. plowking

How easy is that to do? I understand the concept, but I know when I had the system inspected they had a bug of a time even finding the lines. They are buried deep, and the probe rods were not terribly successful at even finding them. They had cameras too.

Obviously I could just dig all over the place. But would hate to dig up have the yard to plant a field of candy canes you know what I mean?

 

[idaho2]

Finnister,

Do you have locator service in Bucks County, If you dig call them first to find your lines. Who knows what the prior owner buried. The worst they could say is No.

idaho2

 

[JPRambo]

I would try using dousing/divining rods to find the end of the drain field lines. A pair of 16 inch long #12 copper wires bent about 4 inch from one end hold them loosely and allowed to swing freely. they should find th e lines or anything in the ground near them.
How to use divining rods - YouTube

 

[plowking]

Around here the leachlines are 60 inches apart and they all run parallel from the dist. box to end of field. There is a header line that connects the ends together.W will probe the end of field to find the end of stone and work our way back to find the header. We remove the 90 degree elbows on outside corners of header and install tees and bring up the vents,some people call them candy canes but we have trenched the vents to edge of woods if the customer doesn't like them in middle of lawn. We have our vents 36 inches high so they don't get buried with snow in the winter. plowking

 

[Bocephous]

If you can divert your gray water from running into your septic tank it would greatly decrease the amount of water that your leach field has to contend with. Trying to coax clay (at least the clay found around here) into absorbing that extra water is a losing battle.

 

[the old grind]

Plowking is so right about the bacteria & field health things. Well aerated soil allows aerobic bacteria to take over naturally beyond the tank. An aerobic conversion could be fancy or plain, but can supposedly rescue the worst system in weeks or something. (Is it too late to vent & hope for some recovery??)

I scouted out an aerobic system whose upkeep items seemed affordable if these outfits really do work that well. Surely there's a $6-10k brand out there somewhere with multiple chambers or 'scatterforb technology' but this guy here is something I might try before shelling $20k that I didn't need to.
Septic System Problem, Septic Tank Problems & Solutions | Aero-Streamｮ

Just how bad is that system already???

 

[Finnster]

Around here the leachlines are 60 inches apart and they all run parallel from the dist. box to end of field. There is a header line that connects the ends together.W will probe the end of field to find the end of stone and work our way back to find the header. We remove the 90 degree elbows on outside corners of header and install tees and bring up the vents,some people call them candy canes but we have trenched the vents to edge of woods if the customer doesn't like them in middle of lawn. We have our vents 36 inches high so they don't get buried with snow in the winter. plowking

Is this is common config for a septic?

The reason I ask is when I had the septic inspected, they were probing for lines perpendicular to the Dbox (90*). Looks from the pix I took, lines are going out in multiple directions. I know they had a hard time finding them. In the 1st pic you see the probing rod they were plunging in the dirt to find the lines, but it was deep and hard clay to push through.

I understand what you are suggesting. A riser on the dbox, and then on the ends of the field. I just can't figure out where the heck my field is.

Here are some (gross) pix when they came to dig up and inspect Dbox and system.

from the camera's perspective, the lines are going straight away from camera, along the trees and porch.

Dbox: Looks like one line out to the side. IIRC, there were 3 or 4 lines out the long side (not pictured). The visible long side port is from the tank.

So it looks like most lines would go straight out from here (under the deere.) Under a whole bunch more trees of course...

 

[Finnster]

Plowking is so right about the bacteria & field health things. Well aerated soil allows aerobic bacteria to take over naturally beyond the tank. An aerobic conversion could be fancy or plain, but can supposedly rescue the worst system in weeks or something. (Is it too late to vent & hope for some recovery??)

I scouted out an aerobic system whose upkeep items seemed affordable if these outfits really do work that well. Surely there's a $6-10k brand out there somewhere with multiple chambers or 'scatterforb technology' but this guy here is something I might try before shelling $20k that I didn't need to.
Septic System Problem, Septic Tank Problems & Solutions | Aero-Streamｮ

Just how bad is that system already???

Its not horrible, but it does get swamped out during the winter and spring if the ground gets saturated. I don't have anything leaching to the surface, but the toilet closetest to the tank does flush a bit weird when it gets swaped. Plus there gets to be a bit of a "septicy" smell in the house. Can't figure out where its from. Nothing outside, and all the traps are filled. Only happens when the field gets swamped. Other issue w/ that bathroom is that it doesn't have a plumbing stack vent to the roof.

We do have the laundry going into the tank. The water softener is to the sump pump. Its actually supposed to go to the tank also according to the township.. but that's a terrible idea.
The sump discharge is a hole other problem I would need to take care of before I would think about routing the laundry to it. My neighbors say they do, but I already have standing water near year around on the side of the house the sump discharge is. A gutter drains there also.

This whole problem was part of the justification of the BH to the wife. Eventually I want to trench the gutters to the street, dry well or otherwise disperse the sump, and french drain the swampy areas.

I have standing water/poor drainage areas, gutter discharges, trees and other undesirables above the tank/dbox/field area too I want to trench also.

Hopefully a combination of all these fixes can take care of most of the issues.