Another slope application question

[AxleHub]

4570,

Its. good you are happy with your equipment choices

 

[Ford850]

4570,

That was a similar statement the Grasshopper salesman made when he stopped out to demo a unit (a front mount). He ended up in the neighbors yard twice and almost in the drainage ditch once.

I'm amazed how much some people don't understand the grass type and sidehills are a combined issue. I've always liked the bigger front mount grasshoppers for slope . . . But sidehills is a different story. As is the need for using r3 treaded tires is important too

R3 turf tires are better on slopes and sidehills for your area/lawn? I can't hold a mower (slope or sidehill) on my hills with R3's. When I tested mowers with R3's (Scag and GH) I slid down and lost control even when it was dry. If I did get traction to climb, I couldn't stop and restart while going up the hill without spinning. Bar tires with low pressure made all the difference for my area.

 

[AxleHub]

R3 turf tires are better on slopes and sidehills for your area/lawn? I can't hold a mower (slope or sidehill) on my hills with R3's. When I tested mowers with R3's (Scag and GH) I slid down and lost control even when it was dry. If I did get traction to climb, I couldn't stop and restart while going up the hill without spinning. Bar tires with low pressure made all the difference for my area.

Good point Ford850. But remember that I didn't end up buying a traditional zero turn rider for the same reasons. My slopes and sidehills don't "play well" with zero turn riders.

But I've had good success with my SCUT (Massey GC1715) with r3 tires because turf tires have more contact points than r4 and r1 tires and the GC has considerable "low weight" which is a great advantage on Blue Grass. But the secret point is I can "hold my line" on sidehills because I'm pulling . . . . not pushing. For a traditional zero turn to holds its line of direction, 2 wheels each have to push differently (independently) to keep it going straight. But with 4wd the front wheels are active drive as well as steerable . . So all 4 wheels are working as a team effort to hold the sidehill line.

Less angled easy sidehills may allow forceful "pushing". That's exactly why the grasshopper demo person was very experienced and a gh owner himself and it was a front mount unit used. But it's also why he ended up in the neighbors yard twice and almost in the ditch once.

I also have a near new 2012 cub cadet zero turn tractor (i1050) and for slope and sidehill mowing it's stunning. Again it is steerable on the front wheels and 2 wd independent rears. Literally I can sidehill cut what are my steepest slopes because it was designed for sidehills and slopes. And it also is a unique unit for snowblowing because it's such a tight turning capability.

Zero turn grasshoppers are great mowers. . . especially the front mounts but they aren't built for sidehills like myself or my one neighbor has.

 

[Ford850]

AxleHub, No doubt there are some seriously steep hills that people mow that require specialized equipment like yours. Have you measured the degree of your terrain? How big of an area is your hilled lawn? I like to see some of the differences that we all deal with during our weekly mowing rituals.

 

[AxleHub]

AxleHub, No doubt there are some seriously steep hills that people mow that require specialized equipment like yours. Have you measured the degree of your terrain? How big of an area is your hilled lawn? I like to see some of the differences that we all deal with during our weekly mowing rituals.

Ford,

I have not done any serious measuring of my slopes and sidehills - but yesterday as I was once again cutting - I was thinking that this week I should do that in some locations and attempting to get some better photos. The issue with photos is to get them after thegrass is cut but get them as profile shots so that the angles are more exposed to view.

My neighbor on the one side has one slope angle that he can't back up with his 4wd lawn tractor- but I'm able to backup any of mine (slope - not sidehill backing up). And my hydro braking is good enough to hold me even on my steepest angle - although I do keep my foot close to the brake just in case.

None of the above is with my FEL on - as that can change conditions a bit. And of course - wet grass & slopes or sidehills don't mix well on Blue Grass. I can do it - but the margin for error changes more than I'm comfortable with.

 

[leonz]

The Ventrac videos are very revealing with regard to how well they perform on slopes when mowing across slopes and reversing up slopes with their front and rear dual turf tire set ups.

 

[woodlandfarms]

A bit of slope comparison videos. Power Trac 1850 vs. Kut Kwick Slopemaster - YouTube

 

[MossRoad]

A bit of slope comparison videos. Power Trac 1850 vs. Kut Kwick Slopemaster - YouTube

Every time I watch that video, I buy more stock in Fruit of the Loom....

 

[leonz]

For all the money they spent a 4 wheel drive spyder slope mower, or a track drive ROBOCUT with a vrisimo flail mower mounted on the front would be more cost effective.

The KOMTEK ROBOFLAIL1 would be another option to enjoy mowing while watching the mower climb in a folding chair with an adult beverage.

One major advantage of the roboflail is that the track drive can be widened to increase the stability of the machine while working.

The ROBOFLAIL can be equipped with spiked tracks to aid in obtaining traction if needed.

 

[4570Man]

I decided to test what it would really take to flip my grasshopper. The answer was a heck of a hill. The strap is not holding anything and was only there to prevent it from rolling over. My phone angle gauge said 48 degrees and it held down even pushing on the ROPS. I’d like to see even a dedicated slope mower actually mow a hill side that steep. Just staying in the seat would be a real problem. Next I’d worry about the engine lubrication at that angle.

 

[MossRoad]

 

[MossRoad]

 

[MossRoad]

The Power Trac slope mowers have automatic, hydraulically operated tilt seats that keep the operator level.

 

[woodlandfarms]

4570. I have done a lot of reading on the Grasshopper and it is quite an impressive machine. 30 degree side slopes are nothing to sneeze at. But that said, you are right, there are a few things missing to assume 45 degrees is possible. As you noted, lubrication of the engine is the first failing point. The 1850, which is not a slope mower but a slope tractor, has deep engine oil tanks and specially designed hydraulic tanks to compensate for side slope work. Also, you are missing a 200lb meat puppet wich will change your COG significantly. Third is turning. While you might be able to go on a side slope, can you turn up hill or downhill and stay safe. Fourth, traction. I just don't see the grasshopper as being capable of sustaining traction on grass on a steep slope. I have a 4wd tractor, 8 wheels at 4PSI and I will tell you traction at 45 degrees is a struggle.

Again, I am not knocking your machine, i am quite impressed from all I have read, and even more so as it is a ztr, but you have maybe a 30 degree machine at best. Will it be a compact, dunno. It seems like it might but I would not want to be the one trying to find out.

 

[4570Man]

I never claimed it would do 45 degrees because it won’t. You’re right that 30 degrees is about the limit. Which is still steeper than is possible with a stock tractor. Everyone that makes a blanket statement that a zero turn sucks on hills is wrong.

 

[woodlandfarms]

I definitely learned something this week. Might be a machine for the wife...

 

[AxleHub]

I decided to test what it would really take to flip my grasshopper. The answer was a heck of a hill. The strap is not holding anything and was only there to prevent it from rolling over. My phone angle gauge said 48 degrees and it held down even pushing on the ROPS. I壇 like to see even a dedicated slope mower actually mow a hill side that steep. Just staying in the seat would be a real problem. Next I壇 worry about the engine lubrication at that angle. View attachment 561680

4570,

I'm trying to grasp the logic of your post and picture but I fail to find that logic.

1st, your fork lift is holding the side up from underneath and the other side is pinched on the edge of the tire. Since when do you drive any vehicle on the edge of the tire (not the body of the tire) ?

2nd you have no driver so again your dog is not realistic.

3rd, by having it held as it is by the forks underneath in a horizontal position instead of at an incline of the forks the unit is merely pinched in place, not sidehill gravity held. You could do this same process with any number of units. You aren't measuring sidehill incline or the units ability to hold itself in a straight running direction on a sidehill incline by its tires and traction and moving it forward.

There is no logical interpretation of sidehill stability with this photo. . . just none. Not tire traction maintained, not steerability, not passenger portability, not engine operation.

 

[4570Man]

I failed to account for traction which is the weak link. That’s why I can’t mow 48 degree slopes. The seat is mounted low with the bottom at about the tops of the tires. It might raise the COG but not by a lot. The tire isn’t pinched. It’s free to roll over. The wheel has to lift up to roll over which it’s free to do. Lift another machine to 48 degrees and see how it goes. I never claimed the engine could operate on a 48 degree side hill, but it’s a 3 cylinder Kubota diesel. Once it gives up so has every other machine that’s not designed for the task. And a splash lubricated gas motor already failed. Remember I didn’t claim to be able to mow a 48 degree side hill. I did claim to be able to be able to mow a hill that’ll roll an unmodified compact and especially sub compact tractor.

 

[4570Man]

I guess I don’t have any proof for my statement because I’ve never rolled a tractor and then mowed the same hill with my grasshopper. I have mowed a bank that’s rolled a garden tractor, a hill that I won’t mow with any of my tractors and a hill at a buddy’s shop that he said there’s no way he’d take his JD garden tractor across. And I’m not trying to convince anyone to buy a grasshopper. I don’t own any grasshopper stock and I don’t work for grasshopper and I realize they’re too expensive for most to justify. I trying to disprove the blanket statement that zero turns suck on hills.