fieldserviceengineer
Bronze Member
"I have a 3 year old New Holland TN65D diesel tractor. The hours are low(225) but I decided to change the antifreeze since its 3 years old. I drained out the green antifreeze and filled it up with a 50/50 mixture of Prestone antifreeze and distilled water. I read somewhere that I need something different or an additive package to help in my diesel. What goes? I have checked at every auto store, Walmart, and even a few tractor dealers and they don't have anything special. My New Holland dealer said the regular green Prestone is OK, the people from Prestone say I need their Heavy Duty Extended life Antifreeze for my tractor! Is this true? Who do I believe? I am ready to put the old green stuff back into my tractor! I need green heavy duty diesel antifreeze or what? This is really nuts! Any advice will be greatly appreciated."
Sorry to be so late in replying on this matter. This happens to be an area of expertise for me as I am a field service engineer for a division of Cummins. First, if the CNH dealer parts guy told you what coolant to use, trust what your tractor/engine operation and maintenance guide calls for. I cannot tell you how many times I hear that service recommendations are being solicited from the Parts guy. Even some service managers at dealerships are clueless and have quick opinions. The O&M guide is you guideline. Sine CNH uses a lot of Cummins engines and likely you are talking about the engine model, QSB 5.9L then from Cummins' point of view on maintenance, the coolant can be one that may not have SCA (supplemental coolant additives). However, CNH factory fill coolants now for their machinery are using coolant products fromulated with additives for the prevention of cylinder wall cavitation (liner pitting). The QSB 5.9 and earlier versions of the B5.9L never required the use of an SCA because the engine has NO history ever of a cavitation failure. If you are running larger engines such as the C8.3L or now ISC or ISL, those engines because they do have a history of cavitation failures if the coolant is not properly formulated and maintained with a suitable SCA will experience destruction cavitation failures that will result in at least an in-chassis overhaul. If you are not running engines with liners (sleeve) cavitation is still possible depending on the engine make.
The Cummins B5.9L, ISB, QSB are not linered engines instead they have what is referred to as a "parent bore", it is cast into the cylinder block. In these engines, cavitation failures are not known in either automotive use, industrial or generator set applications. The new generation B engines, 6.7L are also parent bore but with no cavitation pitting known at this time.
One of the oldest parent bore designs that is a known "pitter" is the Caterpillar 3208 as used in Steiger and the old White (4-225, 4-250) tractors plus plenty of medium duty trucks. Without adequate chemical treatment on a regular basis with a suitable SCA, those engines would fail.
Ford PowerStroke (International D444E) 7.3 turbo, 7.3 NA (no turbo), 6.9L all are known to suffer cavitation pitting failures. The newer 6.0 and its replacement are no different. All these engines are parent bore design.
To be able to sleep at night, use engine coolant that are formulated with SCA and not antifreeze that you have to add the additives to. There are several brands available. Almost none of them are available at Walmart or even auto parts stores. You need to go to a Heavy Duty dealer. Ag dealers who sell HD Fully Formulated Engine Coolants are: John Deere (Koolgard), CNH, Caterpillar (DEAC, not the ELC). Heavy truck dealers such as Kenworth, Peterbilt, International, and Volvo sell fully formulated coolants. Many of them also sell non-treated green colored coolants. Those will require that SCA be added by you when you mix the coolant with water. If you liquid additives such as Fleetguard DCA4, Penray Pencool, Caterpillar additives, the typical treat rate would be about 5 ounces per gallon of mixed coolant.
Keep in mind that the precharged coolant will deplete over time as the engine runs. These SCA chemicals are sacrificial compounds that will dissipate as the engine runs. The higher the engine load factor, the faster the SCA is used. When you have low coolant levels from leaking, refill with the same precharged engine coolant. If your engine has a coolant filter that has the additive in it, those additives are typically quick dissolving. When the coolant leaks, those additives are lost as well. The coolant filter of a given chemical charge size are sized according to what the engine is expected to consume by running, not by leaking. Leakage consumption is replace by proper coolant refill.
Feel free to contact me: ax684@cummins.com
Sorry to be so late in replying on this matter. This happens to be an area of expertise for me as I am a field service engineer for a division of Cummins. First, if the CNH dealer parts guy told you what coolant to use, trust what your tractor/engine operation and maintenance guide calls for. I cannot tell you how many times I hear that service recommendations are being solicited from the Parts guy. Even some service managers at dealerships are clueless and have quick opinions. The O&M guide is you guideline. Sine CNH uses a lot of Cummins engines and likely you are talking about the engine model, QSB 5.9L then from Cummins' point of view on maintenance, the coolant can be one that may not have SCA (supplemental coolant additives). However, CNH factory fill coolants now for their machinery are using coolant products fromulated with additives for the prevention of cylinder wall cavitation (liner pitting). The QSB 5.9 and earlier versions of the B5.9L never required the use of an SCA because the engine has NO history ever of a cavitation failure. If you are running larger engines such as the C8.3L or now ISC or ISL, those engines because they do have a history of cavitation failures if the coolant is not properly formulated and maintained with a suitable SCA will experience destruction cavitation failures that will result in at least an in-chassis overhaul. If you are not running engines with liners (sleeve) cavitation is still possible depending on the engine make.
The Cummins B5.9L, ISB, QSB are not linered engines instead they have what is referred to as a "parent bore", it is cast into the cylinder block. In these engines, cavitation failures are not known in either automotive use, industrial or generator set applications. The new generation B engines, 6.7L are also parent bore but with no cavitation pitting known at this time.
One of the oldest parent bore designs that is a known "pitter" is the Caterpillar 3208 as used in Steiger and the old White (4-225, 4-250) tractors plus plenty of medium duty trucks. Without adequate chemical treatment on a regular basis with a suitable SCA, those engines would fail.
Ford PowerStroke (International D444E) 7.3 turbo, 7.3 NA (no turbo), 6.9L all are known to suffer cavitation pitting failures. The newer 6.0 and its replacement are no different. All these engines are parent bore design.
To be able to sleep at night, use engine coolant that are formulated with SCA and not antifreeze that you have to add the additives to. There are several brands available. Almost none of them are available at Walmart or even auto parts stores. You need to go to a Heavy Duty dealer. Ag dealers who sell HD Fully Formulated Engine Coolants are: John Deere (Koolgard), CNH, Caterpillar (DEAC, not the ELC). Heavy truck dealers such as Kenworth, Peterbilt, International, and Volvo sell fully formulated coolants. Many of them also sell non-treated green colored coolants. Those will require that SCA be added by you when you mix the coolant with water. If you liquid additives such as Fleetguard DCA4, Penray Pencool, Caterpillar additives, the typical treat rate would be about 5 ounces per gallon of mixed coolant.
Keep in mind that the precharged coolant will deplete over time as the engine runs. These SCA chemicals are sacrificial compounds that will dissipate as the engine runs. The higher the engine load factor, the faster the SCA is used. When you have low coolant levels from leaking, refill with the same precharged engine coolant. If your engine has a coolant filter that has the additive in it, those additives are typically quick dissolving. When the coolant leaks, those additives are lost as well. The coolant filter of a given chemical charge size are sized according to what the engine is expected to consume by running, not by leaking. Leakage consumption is replace by proper coolant refill.
Feel free to contact me: ax684@cummins.com
That's a heck of a good price.
