Anyone Build or Convert an Existing Bucket Into A 4-in-1 Bucket?

[ovrszd]

I'm guessing that keeping the weight reasonabe is a challenge. That said, it's use is different than lifting big buckets of dirt.

Weight is a serious downside to a 4n1. Only one I have is on a TLB. It don't mind the weight. It would be a serious issue on a CUT.

 

[sd455dan]

I should really build something before i run my mouth too long on theoreticals but..

To me the appeal of a 4n1 bucket lies in building it differently than your typical 4n1 bucket, which I honestly struggle to see the appeal of.

I don't really understand why 4n1 buckets are built the way they are, with the 'backplate' being more or less just a dozer blade with no side angling (whoopee?) and almost all of the utility coming from the lid, and the lid being basically the entire size of the closed bucket. I understand the idea of backdragging with the open lid, and how it can make sort of a poorly-gripping grapple.. But i don't understand why the main other choices the lid gives you is to have 'a normal bucket' and 'no bucket'.

What i envision building is more like a root grapple with a fully closed backwall, where the grapple lid is more like a bucket lid. The way I see it, by the root grapple having a 'shorter bottom' then the full closed bucket, you get more breakout force. Combine this with the fact that you can open the lid to dump from the bottom, and you can space your pins farther apart on the loader mount and get even more breakout force by sacrificing 'conventional' dump angle. So this would be for breaking hard ground, and could also rake.

Have the space between the 'teeth' taper to a close between the teeth. Then have the lid close under the teeth and nearly close off the bottom. Loose enough to prevent frequent binding of objects rolling between lid and rake, not loose enough to leak all your material out on a bumpy ride.

Have part of the sidewall of the bucket on the back half, and part on the lid. This would, in my mind, allow you to create a shape between those two pieces that would improve the 'bite' when grappling horizontal objects. The tapering opening between the rake teeth would also create a good bite on vertical objects.

Opening the bucket lid gradually would create variable size openings in bottom of the bucket, allowing for some sifting/screening to be done by rattling loose material in a partially-opened bucket.

Don't crucify me on my MS Paint skills, this is the first time i've tried to create a visual for this idea. But instead of going from 'all bucket' to 'no bucket' and having a 'poorly gripping grapple', i see this as going from 'all bucket' to 'root rake' with 'improved gripping action both horizontally and vertically' and having a bit of rock bucket/skeleton bucket functionality as well. The ability to backdrag with the open lid should still remain.

The geometry of the lid pivot etc would definitely need to be figured out. I just put a circle to give the vague idea that theres a pivot up there, but it's definitely in the wrong place.

View attachment 739226

If you change the grapple lid the design posted is somewhat similar to a round tined construction grapple using short tines that are tied together closer to the bucket back.

Some round tined grapples do have closed in back walls and a floor .
That is the basic design of my grapple.
Look at my avatar if the tines were shortened and Veed together then just a different grapple bolt on top would approximate the design you posted.
I think it might be worth pursuing if you are getting a modifiable bucket for free.

New style design might work really well.

72" Tine Grapple Bucket Sillage Rake Manure w/ Hay Spears for Skid Steer

The Titan 72" tine grapple comes with nine United Bale Spears™, 32" Conus 1 tines and its the ideal skid steer attachment for picking up brush, loose hay, or bales.

www.palletforks.com

 

[4570Man]

I'm not an Engineer so I can't analyze the forces involved in such a design. I first question why this design hasn't been offered? I second question the reasons why this design hasn't been offered. Then I run up against my lack of Engineering knowledge....

They make demolition grapples that’s pretty similar to that idea but I’m guessing the 4-1 remains unchanged because “that’s the way it’s always been”

 

[Smokeydog]

Early Bobcat offered a funnel bucket. A general purpose bucket that had a funnel lid that would hydraulically swing down so you dispense what was in the bucket. Gravel, sand, concrete. Always thought that would make loading and dispensing a 1/3 yard concrete mixer easy. Filling block, ICF, or behind retaining walls. Saw one 40 years ago but not since.

 

[Vigo327]

Thanks guys. I suspect weight is the major issue for smaller tractor use.

Another problem is the nicer the design gets in my head, the harder it gets to build! Regular 4n1 buckets are already expensive enough to be rare.. but grapples sell like crazy. Hard to tell where the sweet spot would be for something in between a 'conventional' 4n1 and a root rake/grapple. I don't really care what someone would pay for it, but as mentioned if it's not already being done there are probably reasons and it would behoove me to at least try and figure out why it's not already done before i go and try and do it myself!