Anyone Shying Away from the Complexity of New Equipment

[3930dave]

Well if you want a new tractor you don't have much of a choice, you get what you get. Technology and all. I'm in the Telecommunications business, for 35 years now, seen lots of changes. You either embrace the changes or you are out of a job, simple as that. I know that's a little off course with the original post but it still applies.

Welcome to TBN, and good luck with the tractor hunting.... that can be almost a much fun as seat time once you get there.

If you want to remain a worker bee in tech, or a franchised equipment dealer, then you don't have much choice but to drink the Koolaid of the Month, when it comes to technology.

Big corporate farms would often want to cycle through Ag equipment fast, for a few reasons. Accounting would probably be one of the top priorities.

While some do operate large farms, a lot of TBN'ers fall into the small/hobby farm category.

In the small/hobby category, there are whole range of types of tractor owners. Some have literally never lifted a wrench, others are on the 10'th or 50'th (successful ) tractor rebuild project. Many non-wrenchers want to stay in that category, so the "0% 96month" path works for them.

If you want to (or learn how to) get your hands dirty, there can be advantges beyond just initial cost to going with an older piece of equipment. Reliability and repair costs being 2 big ones.

Where I get irritated (sometimes severely) with new technology is when primary functions are impaired, esp. coupled with severely inflated repair costs. In the commercial world, zero downtime would be ideal - a lot of new equipment tech falls down in that area.

We went through this cycle (still are) with light-duty pickup trucks. How many 7.3L or Cummins 12v owners would have moved on to the Latest and Greatest, if they new how the story would unfold ?

Commercial OTR trucking is going through this painful cycle now. Bad enough, that I've seen brokers inviting O/O's to come in with 10+ y/o trucks - if they pass the company tech inspection, they're hired.

I suspect that Ag equipment will not be immune from similar pain.

Telecomm. Newer is better, right ?

Mot developed a cell phone a few years back, for 3'rd world markets. Just a basic numeric phone, but it absolutely killed on battery life. Intended markets had little or nothing for reliable grid power.

While I started texting on the original blackberry (and still text today), I prefer voice for personal communication. Every phone I've had here has had progressively worse battery life - and that's with me picking towards the top of the litter, in terms of battery performance. I'd buy that Mot 3'rd World phone in a heartbeat, if I could. The only problem I could see is remembering where I put it's charger 3 months ago !

I can call a major Canadian college (ironically their Technical campus) and none of the "modern" digital products I've tried can select a 4 digit extension. The same phones at my end work fine with other company's phone systems. In other words, the college's Latest and Greatest PBX can't reliably process DTMF tones. I guess I expect too much, DTMF has only been around since what, the 1950's ?

New tech can perform impressively under certain conditions. If those specifics matter enough, then the Latest and Greatest can be the best choice.

A resource like TBN can help you decide if Olde Tek is a good fit for your requirements/budget.

Rgds, D.

 

[kcflhrc]

All good points D. Yep, I'm a tractor noob. Not a technology noob though. My line of work requires me to know the latest and greatest. Unfortunately the latest and greatest isn't always the best. Anyway, this is a tractor forum, not a geek forum. So with that said. I inked the deal on a new 2013 John Deere 3032E yesterday, it will be delivered Monday. I'm pretty excited. My first tractor. Ran plenty of them when I was a kid. An old JD 520 for raking hay and a 3020 for bailing. Both great machines and never let us down. I could pull wheelies with the 520, it had the old hand clutch. Pretty cool. Anyway, cant wait for the new toy to get here.

 

[3930dave]

Congratulations kc, that should be a fun tractor !

But, you know the TBN rule by now.... We Need Pics - pls post some in the JD forum next week !

Rgds, D.

 

[PHPaul]

Abso-dang-lutely. My 1988 John Deere 750 is nearly as dead simple as my 1938 Farmall. No electronics outside the regulator/rectifier (and after smoking TWO of JD's $130 units, I built my own from Radio Shack parts...) darn little plastic, gear drive and a clutch.

Heck, I even trailered it to a job once and realized I'd forgotten the key. Rather than screw around driving back, I just jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and went to work. Try THAT with your E-everything Plastic Fantastic WunderTraktor!:laughing:

 

[adirondackmtnman]

Abso-dang-lutely. My 1988 John Deere 750 is nearly as dead simple as my 1938 Farmall. No electronics outside the regulator/rectifier (and after smoking TWO of JD's $130 units, I built my own from Radio Shack parts...) darn little plastic, gear drive and a clutch.

Heck, I even trailered it to a job once and realized I'd forgotten the key. Rather than screw around driving back, I just jumped the solenoid with a screwdriver and went to work. Try THAT with your E-everything Plastic Fantastic WunderTraktor!:laughing:

That's exactly why I picked my 5045d Deere. Simple, simple, simple from the word 'go.' All that simple comes with a darn nice price tag to boot.

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[kcflhrc]

Well if we all bought used or kept what we have then no one would have jobs

 

[ultrarunner]

Until you get into really high-end ones, a lot of the new residential fridges don't get a whole lot more than 5 years out of a compressor. Reduced hp, and cost, and upped the rpm.... something has to give.....

This thread has me muttering (again !) about buying a Model T...... compared to today's cars, the gas mileage isn't even that bad !

Rgds, D.

I was thinking about this the other day... my Grandmothers 1950's Norge fridge and Frigidaire freezer are still going strong.

Mom has her 1968 Amana Freezer and Kenmore Dryer without problems... only a belt for the Dryer.

My old Wedgewood circa 1940 is like new.

One thing all of the above have in common is made in USA.

By the way... Model A Ford for my first car and I still have it... park it for months at a time and ready to go with a battery tender... no wheel cylinders to go bad or plastic parts to crack or plug wires to short. Water pump uses packing that is easily adjusted...

Unfortunately... my Model T's are a little more finicky... those darn coil points need tending.

One of our Doctors was opening up a small clinic and asked me what OR Table to buy... one from the 1950's that is all manual or one from 1998 with electronic push button...

I told him the 1950 table will be around long after we are gone... has a genuine gear box with shifter for table functions.

The 1998 Table reached end of life in 2008... nothing available in terms of controls... a simple hand pendant control new in 1998 was over 2k... more than the price asked for the table used.

It's almost criminal how fast expensive medical equipment becomes outdated... and it is almost always the controls or boards making equipment worthless.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Well . . . not totally worthless. Some kid in Bangladesh is smashing those electronic chips to pieces with a rock to get at the good stuff inside!

 

[3930dave]

That's an interesting perspective ur - at one time, the Model T was the Hi Tech of it's day. roposetoast:

kc is right, New buyers like himself drive the downstream markets. Always has.

I too was thinking of an old fridge - the GE from my uncle's farm, that was still running on the original parts 50 years later.

This thread has also reminded me to check in with my neighbour.... he has a JCB skid steer that seemed to have electronic control module problems. Didn't hear yet how that story ended....

When I say the following, I'm thinking of household traditional major appliances..... over time, we've mostly traded locally built, long lasting products for jobs in China along with the ability to close landfill sites faster..... IMO, this isn't sustainable, from a few directions.

That's what cracks me up about the "environmental protections" govts typically get behind..... things like the embodied energy in manufactured products never seems to come up - partly because that issue is on the wrong side of most economic assessments.

I do enjoy seeing the new tractors that members post here, and the projects they get up to with them.

That said, I have concerns about the Disposable Society we have created. There are problems in place that go beyond just the direct material and environmental impacts.

Rgds, D.

 

[sweettractors]

I was just curious if anyone has the money to purchase a new piece of powered equipment, but is considering used instead, on account of:

complexity and computers, the inability to repair your own equipment (without a laptop and proprietary software)

pollution control equipment

unproven and untried technology

possible issues, unknown costs and frustration

vastly increased basic cost of ownership

Was there a cutoff point, where things were still sensable? Out mid 90s JD has little electronics. The engine is a good old diesel with a mechanical injector pump. But auxiliary things like the PTO has electronic control. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes you have to try it thirty eight times! That (JD) brand should be quality, but they have left me with no faith that a tractor totally run by computers with dozens of connectors and harnesses will be any **** good at all.

A friend of mine recently bought a fairly new excavator. It had issues, and in desperation he called the manufacturer in to repair the issues. They sent some guy (with a laptop) who clearly knew less then my friend about the machine, and billed him thousands for the service call! Plus, he never fixed anything! This just seems like a trend all over the place!

I know you are talking tractors, however, this applies to cars and trucks as well. I hate my new Lincoln MKX more every time I drive it. The dash is waaay too complicated for me. If I have to put my glasses on to see how to turn the radio on or adjust the volume, tech has gone too far! Ken Sweet