AR 15

[westcliffe01]

I'm not sure where you are getting your info from. It has been proven time and again that the 223 is a poor battlefield cartridge. Close quarters - point blank range, of course it will work with all of the space saving advantages. Now I have NEVER seen anyone get up from a torso hit with a 308. Especially when using the high BC ammo like the LR ammo issued to the snipers loaded with 175gr HPBT Sierra Match King ammo. The 308 / 7.72x51 will penetrate tree trunks and light concrete far better than 223, especially at ranges much past 250 yards.

I was not clear what was used in the Paris attacks, but would have thought that 7.62x39 or 5.45x39 (not 223) for either the AK47 or AK 74 which exist in the millions in the eastern european states, especially the states not yet formally part of the EU. The relatively long bullet of the ak74 was known to tumble, thereby creating a severe wound cavity. But to think that the wound cavity from a 308 is nothing to worry about (or not man stopping) is about the most unusual thing I have ever heard from the battlefield.

I have to read this entire thread when I have some time. I fired both .223 and .308 surplus military ammo many years ago. We bought a thousand rounds at a time. It all depends on what you want to shoot. The 308 is hard hitting but lacks the wound ballistics of the .223. You can put a hole through something with the .308 and it might walk or run away before it knows it has a hole in it. Not so with the .223. We fired some Soviet .223 but I don't remember if it was as nasty as the NATO 5.56. I had to think of this in the wake of the French attacks. So many were wounded. They used soviet .223. Those could be some extremely nasty wounds!

 

[azranger]

These are legel to own and have been passed through the ATF, they work off the reset point on the trigger...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQtCTUq4Y_I

 

[BethelHntr]

Geissele semi auto 3 gun trigger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vvr0rSaFgZE

 

[rtimgray]

Since it's been brought up in this thread, I'll mention it: A couple of months ago, I posted a thread on here about an M1 Garand, because I was thinking of getting one from the CMP. I ordered one - their lowest grade at the time which was a "Field" grade (above a "rack" but below a "service"). At the time that I ordered it, the lead time was 3-9 months, so I wasn't expecting to get it anytime soon.

I ended up getting 18 days after I mailed my order in (much to my surprise). I have a small collection of old milsurp guns, and I don't think that I could be happier with money I spent on the M1 ($630, including shipping - and a CMP case).If I recall correctly, it is a Springfield from 1942 (the receiver is, anyway). The stock is in pretty good shape - very solid - and it has a couple of rack numbers painted on it and few scratches and gouges, but nothing that affects the integrity of it. The handguard pieces are all in good shape with not splits or cracks. I would rate the metal parts 7 out of 10, with a few blemishes on the receiver and barrel, but no rust or signs of corrosion to speak of.

It came with a card that notes the muzzle and throat ratings - and I'm going from memory here, because the card is in the baggie of stuff that came with the rifle - but I think the muzzle was a "3" and the throat erosion was a "4". The rest of the rifle appears to be complete.

I had ordered some of the Pakistani 30-06 that came on the enbloc clips, so it had already arrived when I got the rifle. After I got the rifle, I gave it a break down and cleaning, then reassembled and we took it to the field to shoot.

I was pleasantly surprised with the recoil of the cartridges - not nearly as punishing as I thought it would be. I'm assuming this is because the loading for the 30-06 for a Garand is lighter than commercial? We found the accuracy of the rifle to be as good as we were. I think during the course of blowing through about 100 rounds we had one jam - and that may have been from 40-50 year old ammo - or maybe the 70 year old gun, who knows. I'm not gonna blame the American M1, though, when I can blame the imported ammo!

I got it mainly just because I wanted to get a Garand and I haven't seen many originals in stores. The few that I have seen, which have been nicer looking than mine, were all over $1000.

I looked at the CMP site recently and they were showing shipping time now to be what I experienced - 1-2 weeks. I don't ever want to be an alarmist, but if anyone has considered getting an M1, now might be the perfect time. They're not getting any cheaper, and I don't think they're making any more of them (well, not milsurp ones, anyway).

And I also got an email from the CMP the other day that said that the opportunity for them to start selling surplus 1911's MAY come up - the provision for that was in a defense budget bill that has now passed the house and the senate - although it still has to be signed by our President. So it may not happen, and even if it does, there's no timeline when they might be available, what condition they would be in, or how much they would cost. With the preponderance of 1911 clones on the market, the only true value of a CMP one would be for history's sake, I would imagine. (If I have mis-stated anything above, it is due to my ignorance and lack of research on the topic, so take it all with a grain of salt).

Good luck and take care.

 

[dirt ditch]

The rare SKS rifles were called a sporter...the only SKS rifles manufactured to accept an AK type mag.

The 'sporter' model you refer to is, I THINK, called model D, if I remember right. There's a reason they're rare......they don't work well.

There were several models of AK magazine fed SKS's made. The 84, D, M, 63, and Sporter all were made to use AK mags. Actually my Sporter feeds very well with AK mags. The reason they are kind of rare is the AK rifles were far more popular when these guns were being produced. I bought my Sporter brand new twenty some years ago. It was on sale for $190 in the shot gun news.

http://www.yooperj.com - SKS

 

[RoyJackson]

There were several models of AK magazine fed SKS's made. The 84, D, M, 63, and Sporter all were made to use AK mags. Actually my Sporter feeds very well with AK mags. The reason they are kind of rare is the AK rifles were far more popular when these guns were being produced. I bought my Sporter brand new twenty some years ago. It was on sale for $190 in the shot gun news.

http://www.yooperj.com - SKS

Mine runs quite well too. AK mags don't insert as easily as they do in an AK type rifle. The 30 round mags aren't too bad, but the five round mags are a real PITA.
But, once loaded, it's a fun gun!

Now, I will agree with oldpilgrim in the aftermarket conversions....they frequently have feeding problems. Most do not use AK type mags and some are fixed box and still have to be charged using stripper clips.

 

[paulharvey]

Mine runs quite well too. AK mags don't insert as easily as they do in an AK type rifle. The 30 round mags aren't too bad, but the five round mags are a real PITA.
But, once loaded, it's a fun gun!

Now, I will agree with oldpilgrim in the aftermarket conversions....they frequently have feeding problems. Most do not use AK type mags and some are fixed box and still have to be charged using stripper clips.

I have two 'duck bill' 30 round mags, and I don't like either. I would say I get a miss feed at least once per 30 round mag and probably more. The factory ten rounder feeds fine every time. I have a dust cover mounted scope, so I can't use stripper clips.

 

[MacLawn]

...Anything can be thrown in the truck. I prefer not to with mine.

Sounds like you and I were trained alike oldpilgrim. Whew, my Daddy would roll in his grave if he knew I would ever treat anything like that! One of his mottos was, "Son, it's not what you make, it's what you take care of." That's deeply ingrained in me. I use my guns, and they show some use, but never abused.

Bruce way up in Washington, now, that's what I'm talking about! Doesn't that just look a lot better? I've never seen one like that, just all those ugly black plastic things. Now don't get me wrong, I'll probably end up with one of those because of budget, but like I said, holding my nose while I pay for it.:laughing:

 

[hutchman]

Since it's been brought up in this thread, I'll mention it: A couple of months ago, I posted a thread on here about an M1 Garand, because I was thinking of getting one from the CMP. I ordered one - their lowest grade at the time which was a "Field" grade (above a "rack" but below a "service"). At the time that I ordered it, the lead time was 3-9 months, so I wasn't expecting to get it anytime soon.

I ended up getting 18 days after I mailed my order in (much to my surprise). I have a small collection of old milsurp guns, and I don't think that I could be happier with money I spent on the M1 ($630, including shipping - and a CMP case).If I recall correctly, it is a Springfield from 1942 (the receiver is, anyway). The stock is in pretty good shape - very solid - and it has a couple of rack numbers painted on it and few scratches and gouges, but nothing that affects the integrity of it. The handguard pieces are all in good shape with not splits or cracks. I would rate the metal parts 7 out of 10, with a few blemishes on the receiver and barrel, but no rust or signs of corrosion to speak of.

It came with a card that notes the muzzle and throat ratings - and I'm going from memory here, because the card is in the baggie of stuff that came with the rifle - but I think the muzzle was a "3" and the throat erosion was a "4". The rest of the rifle appears to be complete.

I had ordered some of the Pakistani 30-06 that came on the enbloc clips, so it had already arrived when I got the rifle. After I got the rifle, I gave it a break down and cleaning, then reassembled and we took it to the field to shoot.

I was pleasantly surprised with the recoil of the cartridges - not nearly as punishing as I thought it would be. I'm assuming this is because the loading for the 30-06 for a Garand is lighter than commercial? We found the accuracy of the rifle to be as good as we were. I think during the course of blowing through about 100 rounds we had one jam - and that may have been from 40-50 year old ammo - or maybe the 70 year old gun, who knows. I'm not gonna blame the American M1, though, when I can blame the imported ammo!

I got it mainly just because I wanted to get a Garand and I haven't seen many originals in stores. The few that I have seen, which have been nicer looking than mine, were all over $1000.

I looked at the CMP site recently and they were showing shipping time now to be what I experienced - 1-2 weeks. I don't ever want to be an alarmist, but if anyone has considered getting an M1, now might be the perfect time. They're not getting any cheaper, and I don't think they're making any more of them (well, not milsurp ones, anyway).

And I also got an email from the CMP the other day that said that the opportunity for them to start selling surplus 1911's MAY come up - the provision for that was in a defense budget bill that has now passed the house and the senate - although it still has to be signed by our President. So it may not happen, and even if it does, there's no timeline when they might be available, what condition they would be in, or how much they would cost. With the preponderance of 1911 clones on the market, the only true value of a CMP one would be for history's sake, I would imagine. (If I have mis-stated anything above, it is due to my ignorance and lack of research on the topic, so take it all with a grain of salt).

Good luck and take care.

Yes, the military loading of the .30-06 is different from commercial. It has more to do with burn rate of the powder used which effects the pressure curve. Commercial ammo could develop a pressure curve that would damage (bend) the OP rod. If you have access to military ammo, no problem. If you're into metallic reloading, no problem, you can use the proper powder etc.. If all that fails and all you have is commercial ammo, consider getting something like Schuster DCM Adjustable Gas Plug Wrench M1 Garand Steel Parkerized or Ported Gas Plug

 

[hutchman]

"throw it in the truck" gun.

That's what HiPoints are for