ASV Undercarriage design 4500/4810

bz1 · Jul 27, 2011

I spent some time looking at 3 or 4 other brands of exclusion seals including the Cat DuoCone seals. None of the brands I looked at make one that will fit the existing arrangement. So yes, we're stuck with seals from the dealer at $36 each. Truthfully, I think any other kind that I've looked at would probably be even more expensive. The DuoCone metal face seals look expensive enough, others I found look even more expensive. I guess I can't complain too much since I've gotten by relatively cheap so far.

I've started getting my axles ready to put back onto the machine. I have them all removed on one side and got half of them refilled with grease today. I'm doing what you suggested Bison and filling them with grease. The ones I'm not taking apart I am filling with grease by sticking a flexible tube into the axles all the way up to the back side of the bearing. I am shooting about 2 cups of grease against the inside of each bearing. Then I put about a cup of gear oil in after that, then I reinstall the fill plugs. I know that grease will not always go into the bearing where you want it so I'm using rather light #2 grease and putting some oil in afterward in hopes of encouraging the grease to move around. What do you think of that approach? On the two axles that I have dissassembled so far I will pack the bearing and between the bearing and seal with grease and partially fill the tube. I'll be getting my OEM seals tomorrow so I can finish reassembling the two axles I took apart. Good thing I'm retired because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do all this work.

Bison · Jul 28, 2011

bz1 said:
I spent some time looking at 3 or 4 other brands of exclusion seals including the Cat DuoCone seals. None of the brands I looked at make one that will fit the existing arrangement. So yes, we're stuck with seals from the dealer at $36 each. Truthfully, I think any other kind that I've looked at would probably be even more expensive. The DuoCone metal face seals look expensive enough, others I found look even more expensive. I guess I can't complain too much since I've gotten by relatively cheap so far.

I've started getting my axles ready to put back onto the machine. I have them all removed on one side and got half of them refilled with grease today. I'm doing what you suggested Bison and filling them with grease. The ones I'm not taking apart I am filling with grease by sticking a flexible tube into the axles all the way up to the back side of the bearing. I am shooting about 2 cups of grease against the inside of each bearing. Then I put about a cup of gear oil in after that, then I reinstall the fill plugs. I know that grease will not always go into the bearing where you want it so I'm using rather light #2 grease and putting some oil in afterward in hopes of encouraging the grease to move around. What do you think of that approach? On the two axles that I have dissassembled so far I will pack the bearing and between the bearing and seal with grease and partially fill the tube. I'll be getting my OEM seals tomorrow so I can finish reassembling the two axles I took apart. Good thing I'm retired because I couldn't afford to pay someone to do all this work.

i think you're doing fine filling the axles as you do.
And you're right in saying it would be to expensive to farm the work out.

If one can't fix himself,one is better off to leave these used machines sit where they are and buy brandnew ones and trade in after the warranty expires.
I sure as heck won't buy another one,used or new.

bz1 · Jul 28, 2011

Thanks. Picked up the axle seals today. I talked with the dealer mechanic. He said that the newer machines are coming with grease in the axle tubes rather than oil. That's interesting. The parts guy said that my machine was not supposed to come with axles that used these seals. He thinks someone replaced all the axles on this machine at one time. These seals would not fit the original OEM axles. It was a one owner machine before I got it so either the factory did an updated that doesn't show up in the manuals or the past owner replaced axles. That might explain why they are in such good shape.

digger104 · Aug 7, 2011

bz1 said:
I think one could definitely use plastic tubing but I think it would have to be high density polyethylene. In fact you can buy aftermarket plastic ones from Bair Products but they are more expensive. I looked to find some plastic tubing and it is very expensive stuff too. We have a few steel surplus yards around here where one can get steel stuff like this for half the price of new if they have it. That would be where I check first. Otherwise the best price I found was new tubing that cost about $180 for enough to make 48 sleeves. That's still cheaper than $5.50 each.

Wish I would have thought of your idea on the freeze plug cover, I removed the first one with a die grinder and chisel but it's ruined. Didn't come out easy. Guess I never thought of welding mainly because I wasn't sure how close all that heat would be to the bearing which appeared to run smooth and was OK. Now that I've got one apart I can see that it might work.

I used the ones from Blair. Did not last very long, went back to the steel.

bz1 · Aug 7, 2011

Digger, interesting experience with the Bair plastic sprocket tubes and we appreciate the addition to the thread. Bair claims the plastic ones will last longer than steel. It's nice to know the truth. Which machine do you have? How do you like it?
I just finished rebuilding the right side undercarriage. All the axles are filled with grease, new drain plugs installed, several new seals, all the bolts I removed are replaced with new ones, and the track is installed.
It really was simple to install the new track. I have heard many places what a tough job this can be but I got the new track on in about 30 minutes. That's the time to just get it in place. Some of that time was spent thinking about it. Next time I think I can do it in 15 minutes. Then it took maybe an hour to adjust the tension. This took longer than it should too because I had to experiment with different tools and jack points until I got it done. This will go faster next time too.
Tomorrow I start on the left side of the machine. We'll see how much faster this goes.

Bison · Aug 8, 2011

bz1 said:
Digger, interesting experience with the Bair plastic sprocket tubes and we appreciate the addition to the thread. Bair claims the plastic ones will last longer than steel. It's nice to know the truth. Which machine do you have? How do you like it?
I just finished rebuilding the right side undercarriage. All the axles are filled with grease, new drain plugs installed, several new seals, all the bolts I removed are replaced with new ones, and the track is installed.
It really was simple to install the new track. I have heard many places what a tough job this can be but I got the new track on in about 30 minutes. That's the time to just get it in place. Some of that time was spent thinking about it. Next time I think I can do it in 15 minutes. Then it took maybe an hour to adjust the tension. This took longer than it should too because I had to experiment with different tools and jack points until I got it done. This will go faster next time too.
Tomorrow I start on the left side of the machine. We'll see how much faster this goes.

Yeah,getting the tracks off and on ain't that hard once one figgers out how to.
I found taking all 4 bolts out of the planetairy framein stead of only the rear 2 gives a guy the abillity to slide the adjuster frame further forwards giving more room for track removal.

The OEM track adjuster is not worth its salt, i chucked it in the scrap bin.

A long railroad crowbar makes short work in prying the frame forwards for track removal and later backwards after track install.
I found a standard 1 or 2 ton hydr bottle jack centered in between the sprocket carrier and the main track frame works wonders in stretching the belt in place in short order.

bz1 · Aug 8, 2011

I ended up using a come along with the cable threaded through just the right place so it pulled straight backward. It moved the frame very easily. I'll have to try the bottle jack for the final tightening. I did use a big crow bar for persuading the track part way onto the rollers then I just started the machine up and spun the track the right direction so it walked right on.

Got the left side of machine almost completely tore down today. Track is off and all axles removed. Got several axles repacked with grease. Still need to remove sprocket.

Question, I'm thinking about removing the hydraulic brake cylinder completed since I really don't need it. Any idea how to cap of the brake hydraulic circuit? I think the brake works using pressure to release the brake against a spring. When hydraulic pressure goes away the spring disengages the brake. I should just be able to cap off both hydraulic ports to the brake with no ill effects. Agree?

Bison · Aug 9, 2011

You got me there on the brakes,as of now i havn't a clue where they are located:confused2:

Personally i would not remove them,if something happens when you're on a slope there's no way to avoid mishap.It could be a looooooooong way down.
When you get used to the machine you learn to feather the controls so the braking is more graduall.

bz1 · Aug 9, 2011

The only brake that exists on these machines is a single hydraulic ram that engages into the sprocket on one side whenever you shut the machine down or get off the seat. The brake is really only an emergency parking brake. According to the 4810 parts list look just forward of the right sprocket and you will see a hydraulic ram with about a 1.5 inch diameter shaft that sticks into the sprocket. It does nothing while you are driving. The only thing that slows you down while driving is the hydraulic motors when you put them in neutral or go the opposite direction. So if you did want to hold position on a slope you either have to do it by applying some power to the tracks in the uphill direction or by shutting it down or getting off the seat. The reason I'm thinking to remove it is that if there is ever a system failure, like the seat switch, the relay that actuates the brake solenoid, the brake solenoid or an engine failure, the brake will immediately lock up the sprocket and you go nowhere. So if these failures happen or if the engine quits and won't start you cannot move the machine. If the problem is only a switch or relay you could hot wire the brake but if the problem is the brake solenoid or a dead engine you are screwed. You can't even tow a dead machine. It could be quite hard to disconnect the brake if you happen to be burried in muck at the time. I've talked to people that had an engine that won't start and they end up having to find another machine large enough to drag the track loader to civilization. My property where I use the machine is basically very flat terrain so I'm really not worried about hills. The biggest thing I could roll down into is the road ditch.