Axial Pump ID and Locate Similar Replacement

[aroz49]

I'm trying to ID two hydrostatic pumps (black casing) that are joined in tandem (apparently both are the same) and the third one (aluminum casing) which controls the pressure (2000 psi) for the auxiliary hydraulics.

The machine is: 2002 TMX Lineman, towable mini excavator. Powered by 20HP Kohler gas engine. Pumps are all bolted directly to the engine via 2 bolt flange and use the 5/8" shaft with 9 tooth spline. There are a total of 14 hoses attached. Closed loop system. Electronically controlled.

The two tags on the pumps read: Axial Pump, Made in Italy, COD 7.019075024, S.NR 006534

Have not been able to find any info on Axial Pump company in Italy. Think this may be a dealer or OEM plate. There are some numbers on the case near the tags ending in ....122.

My machine is missing these pumps so I'm trying to ID them and to locate replacements. Photos attached are from another similar machine: showing top view and side rear view. Any help to ID these would be apprecaited. I'm new to hydraulic systems and to the forum. Thank you.

 

[J_J]

They look like Eaton pumps.

Take a look at the Power-Trac forum.

Some of the PT machines use dual pumps.

I have an Eaton variable speed pump, closed loop hyd system. similar to those with a single Cessna gear pump piggybacked.

 

[aroz49]

Thank you JJ. I will check it out.

I also forgot to mention in my initial post that the third pump, PTO or auxiliary pressure control has the following on it: PMSI 15-2978/25043-3. To date I have not found any info on this as well.

 

[J_J]

Try here. I believe this is an Italian co.

BONDIOLI PAVESI : Power Transmission - Mechanical components - DirectIndustry

The rear pump could be one of these gear pumps.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/Gear-Pumps/

 

[J_J]

Do you have this or a manual for your machine?

Best Mini Excavators for Sale | Efficient, Powerful, and Convenient.

 

[aroz49]

Yes JJ, I have the Spec Sheet and I do have the Operators Manual. Neither is very specific. Absolutely no mention of make of pump anywhere, but I'm thinking this is by design. I have seen the figure 6.7 gpm for each of the two main pumps and I have also seen the figure of 4.1 gpm@1800 rpm. Perhaps these two readings are the same since the engine revs to 3600 rpm.

I have also seen the figure of 9 gpm for the PTO Auxiliary Hydraulics. Perhaps with this info I will be able to match up some pumps from Surplus Center. I'm positive about the 2 bolt flange and the 5/8" 9 tooth spline info because I measured the end of the crankshaft on the Kohler myself.

 

[aroz49]

I have examined the two Hydraulic Wheel Drive motors on the back of each wheel and they are made by White Drive Products (White Hydraulics) and are called Roller Stator motors.

Thinking that perhaps TMX uses the same supplier for the Hydrostatic Pumps I went to the White Drive Products and they have a similar pump called CP 113 but I'm not sure is is the exact match. Not sure if the CP 113 can be linked in tandem??

JJ you are much more experienced with hydraulics then I will ever be. Can you take a look at the CP 113 pump and its description and then at my photos and tell me what you think. White Drive Products, Inc.

I did notice that the CP 113 has a manual control shaft on it which my pumps do not have or need. Is that right??

 

[J_J]

The pump that you linked to has a manual shaft that controls the direction of flow.

I believed you said something about sollenoid or pilot control.

The VSP pump on my machine is shaft control, but some of the other Power-Tracs have hyd control.

On my PT, I push on a pedal that operates a cable to move the control shaft for fwd and rev.

There are several different manufactures parts on my machine, Eaton, Cessna, Barnes, etc.

A new pumps could be from wherever, as long as the shafts match up, turn in the right direction, have the control you want, and have the same mounting scheme.

What you need to look for is a pump turning in the right direction, has the displacement you need for the HP available, and what kind of control you want.

 

[peterbuilt84]

I have examined the two Hydraulic Wheel Drive motors on the back of each wheel and they are made by White Drive Products (White Hydraulics) and are called Roller Stator motors.

Thinking that perhaps TMX uses the same supplier for the Hydrostatic Pumps I went to the White Drive Products and they have a similar pump called CP 113 but I'm not sure is is the exact match. Not sure if the CP 113 can be linked in tandem??

JJ you are much more experienced with hydraulics then I will ever be. Can you take a look at the CP 113 pump and its description and then at my photos and tell me what you think. White Drive Products, Inc.

I did notice that the CP 113 has a manual control shaft on it which my pumps do not have or need. Is that right??

Aroz49,
I know this is a reply to an old thread but I've come across the same problem. Did you happen to come across the 2 piggy back motors & the main supply pump and/or find a replacement pump/pumps. Sure would appreciate anything you might have found . Thanks a bunch!

 

[J_J]

These pumps are similar to the ones on my Power-Trac.

You have to know the total displacement to figure the HP requirements.


1.24 cu in. VARIABLE PISTON PUMP EATON 70160REN03


0.84 CU IN EATON 25302 LAH HYD PUMP

Surplus Center

 

[aroz49]

Good morning peterbuilt84.
To date I have not found any replacement pumps and have put this project on the back burner. I will get back to it probably during the winter months. Here is what I have learned so far: the two main pumps that are attached to the 20 HP Kohler gas engine in tandem were made by Axial Pump which was a Comer Group Company (Comer Industries.com). This company was bought out or merged with the much large company called Poclain (Poclain Hydraulics) (PH). My guess is that Poclain probably still makes or sells these pumps under their name (or a very similar pump) but I have not investigated any further to determine a model number, availability, price etc. As J_J mentioned displacement will be important to match up a replacement pump and I will follow that advice.

Now for the third pump, the PTO (auxiliary hydraulics pump) which is attached last after the two above pumps, I have learned that it was made by an Italian company called: Casappa Italy aka Casappa Fluid Power Design. Don't know the exact model number either. I believe that the Surplus Center will have a similar replacement pump for little money for this application, but I have to purchase the two main pumps first to make sure that they all mate up properly.

This is all the info I have gathered so far. Have not purchased any replacement pumps yet but am always looking. I do not have the old ones to use as examples. I am totally new to hydraulics but learning quickly.

Hope the above info helps a bit. Good luck. aroz49

 

[peterbuilt84]

J.J,
Thank you so much for the information. I can tell you probably have forgotten more on hydraulics then I will ever learn! LOL I know just enough to be dangerous. That being said I had a couple ?'s on the variable pump. My pumps have 4 hoses attached to each unit. This pump you sent also has 4 ports. Can I assume 2 are for power & 2 are for control? This unit looks to have a mechanical arm for manual control? In my case would I be fine to just use the hydraulic control if that's correct? Appreciate your input and any insight you may have. Thankyou

 

[peterbuilt84]

These pumps are similar to the ones on my Power-Trac.

You have to know the total displacement to figure the HP requirements.


1.24 cu in. VARIABLE PISTON PUMP EATON 70160REN03


0.84 CU IN EATON 25302 LAH HYD PUMP

Surplus Center

J.J,
Thank you so much for the information. I can tell you probably have forgotten more on hydraulics then I will ever learn! LOL I know just enough to be dangerous. That being said I had a couple ?'s on the variable pump. My pumps have 4 hoses attached to each unit. This pump you sent also has 4 ports. Can I assume 2 are for power & 2 are for control? This unit looks to have a mechanical arm for manual control? In my case would I be fine to just use the hydraulic control if that's correct? Appreciate your input and any insight you may have. Thankyou

 

[peterbuilt84]

Good morning peterbuilt84.
To date I have not found any replacement pumps and have put this project on the back burner. I will get back to it probably during the winter months. Here is what I have learned so far: the two main pumps that are attached to the 20 HP Kohler gas engine in tandem were made by Axial Pump which was a Comer Group Company (Comer Industries.com). This company was bought out or merged with the much large company called Poclain (Poclain Hydraulics) (PH). My guess is that Poclain probably still makes or sells these pumps under their name (or a very similar pump) but I have not investigated any further to determine a model number, availability, price etc. As J_J mentioned displacement will be important to match up a replacement pump and I will follow that advice.

Now for the third pump, the PTO (auxiliary hydraulics pump) which is attached last after the two above pumps, I have learned that it was made by an Italian company called: Casappa Italy aka Casappa Fluid Power Design. Don't know the exact model number either. I believe that the Surplus Center will have a similar replacement pump for little money for this application, but I have to purchase the two main pumps first to make sure that they all mate up properly.

This is all the info I have gathered so far. Have not purchased any replacement pumps yet but am always looking. I do not have the old ones to use as examples. I am totally new to hydraulics but learning quickly.

Hope the above info helps a bit. Good luck. aroz49

Aroz49

Thanks for the additional information and that does answer a few questions. I feel it only right to let you know what I found too. I contacted TMX and asked them a few questions and they were very helpful. (Guys name was Wally) Company was bought out in 2006 . Since being bought they have went to pumps they get in Iowa.(He wouldn't tell me manufacturer but I understand that) They have went to more electrically activated controls for their hydraulics to lessen the amount of hoses. That being said he said he could sell me a complete conversion(pumps,controls reservior) package for around 6500.00 .LOL Knowing I would price my self right out of the neighborhood, I asked him about a smaller package. He said he could sell me the pumps & adaptor Plate (on the motor) for around 3,000.00+ . The only thing I would have to do is retrofit the hoses to fit. Still a little pricey with a lot of work. J.J. put me on to a couple of pumps for about half that amount if they will work for our system.(a few posts back) I'm still confirming they will work. Look forward to anything you have or anything I can share. Thank you sir!!

 

[SSdoxie]

J.J,
Thank you so much for the information. I can tell you probably have forgotten more on hydraulics then I will ever learn! LOL I know just enough to be dangerous. That being said I had a couple ?'s on the variable pump. My pumps have 4 hoses attached to each unit. This pump you sent also has 4 ports. Can I assume 2 are for power & 2 are for control? This unit looks to have a mechanical arm for manual control? In my case would I be fine to just use the hydraulic control if that's correct? Appreciate your input and any insight you may have. Thankyou

The 4 ports on the pump are: 2 are the work outlet ports. The one on top at rear is suction inlet for the charge pump built into the back of the pump and the 4th (top front) on the case is Case Drain going back to tank or cooler.

 

[J_J]

2 Work ports SAE 12
Charge Inlet Port SAE 8
Auxiliary Port SAE 8
Case Drain SAE 8

The shaft is directional control, spring centered to neutral.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@hyd/documents/content/pll_1474.pdf

 

[peterbuilt84]

View attachment TMX Escavator - Hydraulic Diagram .pdfJJ & Dennis,
Thank you for your quick and descriptive replies thus far. After looking at the pump I think my pumps are electronically controlled(I think LOL) . I did find a hydraulic diagram which may help to find a comparable pump/pumps to retrofit into my application . I know my joysticks do have smaller 1/4" hydraulic lines attached to it which I think is called "pilot controlled" (I think). Can you you all look at the diagram and tell me if there possibly is a unit/units out there to retrofit into my application? I was hoping to keep the majority of my hose configuration if possible to cut down on the labor time. I understand that hose ends may have to be altered. Any help would be appreciated. The 2 diagrams make up one page I had to scan in 2. (too big for my scanner)
Thanks a bunch!
Reg

 

[peterbuilt84]

Let me try the diagram again just to make sure it opens.

 

[MHarryE]

Your diagram won't load for me but you describe hydraulic pilot operated controls to your pumps - the -4 pilot lines from the joysticks. The new control from Iowa is likely Danfoss in Ames, Iowa. The history of that company is starting as Sundstrand which was a very common hydrostatic transmission, purchased by Sauer in Germany to become Sauer-Sundstrand, merged with Danfoss to become Sauer-Danfoss, and within the past few years Danfoss Piwer Systems. The system they described yo you likely incorporates a Danfoss double axial piston pump (control section in the center with one pump in each direction - compact size, nice installation package. They usually group the H1 pump with their Plus+1 controller and joystick. It's a major upgrade and completely new package. You need tandem pumps with through drive capability to run the gear pump at the end of the stack. Matching all the frame sizes, controllers, and ports is going to be a challenge, especially for a one off. Comer Industries sold its hydraulic pump business to Poclain In 2009 but that marking on the pump is not like any Comer logo I have ever seen. There are so many hydraulic companies. One of Comer's specialties is making track drives for companies such as Bobcat so pumps were not a core product. If I remember their design was licensed from a Japanese company so finding a match may just involve a lot of Internet search.

 

[peterbuilt84]

MHarryE,
Thanks for your insight & knowledge on my issue. Seems I kind of highjacked this thread. LOL The original gentleman that started this post had no pumps at all just pics. I fortunately do have my original pumps but they are getting pretty weak at this point. I was hoping to go to a more American company where parts would be more available and I'd say better quality. I have come across that H1 pump a few time but I lack the knowledge to understand a hydraulic diagram . If I can get the pump/pumps and control identified I can retrofit the hoses I have.I'm guessing I may have to see a tech . Let me try posting the diagram again. It was too big for my scanner so I did it in 2 parts.
Thanks and any help would be appreciated!