Backhoe backhoe auger hydraulics

[Anonymous Poster]

Anybody care to address probable hydraulic connection/control for a backhoe-mount hyd. auger?
(Roger, have you mounted yours yet, or have it all planned-out?)

I talked to a McMillen dealer, and he seemed a little vague about specifics... I got the impression he hadn't mounted an X450 on a backhoe before.

From comments here on the list, and a dash of common-sense, the logical thing (to me ) is to use the backhoe-bucket scoop/dump action-lever to give fwd./rev. on the auger. The rotation, boom, and dipperstick functions would stay the same, for positioning the auger.

I'd sure appreciate some suggestions as to how-best to connect things!

Also, how might hyd.top and tilt(right side only) fit into the equation, if installed.

(This would be on a JD4700 with "power-beyond" kit and a JD48 backhoe.)

Thanks in advance,

Larry

 

[RMulkey]

Larry,

Really Wierd about the messages...

For the Backhoe operation I put quick connects on the Backhoe Bucket Cylinder hydraulic connections. The power head already has ~10' of hose permanently attached for connection to the Top and Tilt when using it mounted on the Loader Frame. I plan to remove the 10' section and install some quick connects on the auger itself to allow use of shorter hoses on the backhoe mount. I will try to take some more pictures of the setup tomorrow.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Just tryin' to get a bite on my previous post in this thread.

Looks like 50+ viewers, but "no comment".

I'm hoping that, with the holidays behind us, someone might take the time to "opine" a bit

Larry

 

[Bird]

Looks like none of the 50 or so of us know anything about what you're trying to do, Larry./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif Guess you can be the guinea pig and try it then tell US.

Bird

 

[RMulkey]

Larry,
Sorry I did not get any pictures over the weekend. I was digging water line trenches and never got around to using the auger. I will take some picture the next time I use the auger, probably this weekend or next...

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Roger,
You had responded before I put out my "2nd call".
Don't know why I missed it when I checked the thread.

Anyway, wanted to let you know I did get it, and say thanks.

(Must be my Alzheimer's acting -up...at least I think I had Alzheimer's - can't remember!)

Larry

 

[RMulkey]

Here is the picture of the Auger Backhoe attachement. Hope this helps.

 

[RMulkey]

Here is a picture of the bucket curl cylinder connections. The auger speed is controlled with the bucket curl control valve. I plan to extend the "H" shaped BH mounting bracket to have both bucket pins for the curl cylinder hold the auger power head. Today the bracket will slip to the side if you put too much weight on it. It works well, but could be better.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Roger,

I really appreciate your photos and comments!
I have printed them out, and they will be a big help to me and to the dealers/service people who are helping me put this together..., there doesn't seem to be anyone with much experience with these things around here ( or maybe I just haven't found them yet).

To be sure I understand:
Starting at the bottom of the "H" bracket, towards the auger , then moving up - the bottom pin (which the auger hangs from)seems to have (about 2 " ?) of space on each side of the auger-drive frame, which would permit the frame to "slide" sideways some, unless bushings were placed on both (or one -longer) sides to fill this "gap". What is your thinking about this?

Moving up, we then have the crossbar of the "H" itself.

Up further, and we have the pin connecting to the dipper-stick.

Do I understand that you intend to continue "upwards", lengthening the upper "arms" of the "H", and putting a pin thru the ends, connecting it with this pin to the bucket-curl link that is shown resting (with empty holes) on top of the dipperstick?

I guess I don't understand how this extension will prevent the "slipping to the side" that you mention... but it seems to me the "bushings" on the bottom shaft would!

Another question:
Do You think someone could start the auger bit (lightly) into a desired hole-spot, and then lower the boom so that the auger was making a (45 degree, say) angle with the ground, and then , using the boom/dipperstick controls, "follow" the bit as it drilled an "angled" hole? (I'd like to set some "angled" poles. I imagine very-slowly would be the only way to attempt this, both from a chewing-gum and walking standpoint ( re. the controls) and safety (should the auger break loose from the ground at the start, and have gravity start it swinging as it rotated, or something).

I realize there may be a "wacko" element to this idea...so don't hold back on any negative comments.

I'll just plead ignorance

Speaking-of-which, I just noticed something else I'm curious about... Is there some reason you went back toward the operator with the auger hoses, and then looped them under-and-forward to the auger. Looks like foward along the dipperstick and then over-the-side to the auger would be shorter. Are they less-subject-to-snagging on things when drilling in tight-quarters, maybe?

Thanks again,...keep those photos comin' (sure ARE "worth thousands of words"!)

Larry

 

[MarkV]

Roger,

That is a real nice set up. Thanks for the photo's. Just adds something else to the wish list.

MarkV

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Roger,

Thanks for taking the time to post the pictures. I have been following this thread and the other where this discussion surfaced.

One of the problems I see is my attachment priority list keeps getting messed up.

The other problem, I would have to build fence a night to hide this rig from my neighbors.

Thanks again, neat rig/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[RMulkey]

Larry,
Happy to help.

There are to differnet improvements I would make.

1) the side to side slip of the power head on the lower pin of the H bracket.

2) The foreward and rearward swing of the H bracket itself on the 2 pins.


- As you said, the ~2" side to side play in the bottom of the bracket could be removed with a shim or spacer. I have not noticed that this extra space causes a problem so far but this could be an improvement. The post holes in the ground are probably a just a little bigger than the auger because of this extra space.

- The way the top of the "H" attaches to the dipper stick allows it to swing foreward and backward. If you put too much weight on the digger, the H pivots on the 2 large pins foreward or rearward. You can still put the whole weight of the tractor on the auger when it is like this, but it would be better if 1 of the 2 large pins in the H were fixed so their was only 1 movable joint. I thought about extending the top of the H up to the bucket curl link shown resting with empty holes on top of the dipperstick. This would leave only one joint that pivots. The quick disconnects on the bucket curl cylinder would lock the cylinder in place so the H would be fixed also. As long as there is a single pivot, the auger will still hange straight down. My other idea is to weld some plates on the top half of the H to fit around and box end of the dipper stick itself to make the H extend straight off the end of the dipper stick. This would also eliminate the top pivot problem. It's hard to tell in the pictures but the H is made of 1" steel. The large pins are 1-1/4" steel pins. I will need some serious metal working tools to modify this setup or (shame) pay someone...

I am not a safety expert but starting a hole straight down a short distance and then lowering the auger head to create a angle into the side of a hill seems dangerous to me. If the auger angle was fixed off the dipper stick and not hanging in the direction of gravity, it seems like this might be ok if you go slow. I have never attempted this. I tend to use the backhoe itself to dig into hill sides.

There is nothing magic in the hose routing. The hoses are simply way too long and are attached to the power head without disconnects. I use a bungie (sp?) cord to tie them to the dipper stick to keep them out of the way. Someday I plan to add hydraulic hose disconnects at the power head and use some shorter hoses to the curl cylinder hoses.

I have probably said this a few too many times, but here it goes again. The reason I use this setup is to reach into weird or hard to reach locations. I drill 95+% of post holes with the power head attached to the side of the loader frame, not the backhoe. The loader frame mount is MUCH quicker than relocating the tractor every 1-2 holes and setting up the backhoe. Nothing short of digging by hand beats this setup for reaching over, around, between, or through existing obsticals that limit the tractor access. I have even drilled holes with the backhoe arm through a barn stall window to put in some drainage. I am completely lazy when it comes to digging post holes. I don't dig holes by hand period. I still have nightmares about putting in a couple of hundred post holes by hand when I was growing up.

Hope this helps.
-Roger

 

[flkl35]

RMulkey
I was very excited to read this post, I have been dreaming of putting an auger on my Kubota L35 since I bought it in October. I really enjoyed your pictures. It sound like you put in alot of fence, and I'm sure you have numerous hours on a standard 3 point auger. Having used both augers can you give me some of the pros and cons of each system. In your opinion is it worth the extra cost to go this route? If you are not worried about reaching into a tight situation, would you rather have the auger mounted on the loader or the backhoe?

 

[RMulkey]

flkl35,
I have only used the hydraulic auger on the loader or the backhoe (other than my recuring childhood nightmare of putting in 100's of posts by hand). I have never used the auger mounted on the 3PH (PTO or hydraulic driven). The Loader side mount or the 3PH mount would both be great for drilling lots of holes quickly. You can drive to the location, set the parking brake and drill. The backhoe mount is relatively slow since you need to drive to the location, set the brake, set up the backhoe, and drill. Your L35 should be quicker than my setup since I have to get off the tractor and climb into the separate seat for the backhoe, but I think it will still be a lot faster with the auger mounted on the loader or 3PH.
Good luck.

 

[simmysam3]

What is the actual auger drive unit pictured?

I could use a shopping list!