hayden
Veteran Member
I borrowed a friends L3710 and Woods 9000 backhoe today to dig a trench. I have a B2910 with a Kubota 4690 backhoe (I left it at my place in Vermont, hence the loaner) and thought I'd offer a first hand comparison.
The obvious difference between the two hoes is their size (7' verses 9') and the extra reach of the 9' is nice and reduces the amount of time you spend repositioning the tractor. The digging power of the 9000 is clearly better, but is offset considerably by the larger bucket (maybe 18" verses 16"). In general digging speed for a tranch was about the same. If I were digging a hole, the larger bucket would clearly make for faster work.
The bigger difference is the mounting of the hoes, and will take us into the sometimes religious debate about 3PH verses frame mounts. The 9000 is a frame mount and the Kubota BH is of course 3PH mount. I've had lots of experience with the 3PH mounting, and now have some first hand experience with a frame mount, including getting it attached to the tractor, for a first hand comparison.
As many have stated, the frame mount is very solid. There is virtually no movement between the hoe and tractor and they act like a single machine. This gives a nice sense of security. The 3PH mount definitely wiggles around more, especially if the stabilizers are not lifting the tractor off the ground.
As for attaching the frame and hoe, I was not so impressed. The frame mounts to the tractor in three places. There is a bracket that permanently bolts to the tractor amidships, another bracket that bolts to the underside of the transmission case below the rear PTO, and a top link that fits like the 3PH top link. To mount the hoe, you first have to remove all the 3PH bars. This involves removing several pins and taking out two bolts. The you back the tractor over the frame, but not all the way into position. Next you have to climb between the hoe and rear of the tractor and hook a third removable brack to the permanent one on the tractor's rear, pinning it in place with the draw bar pins. Those bolts that had to be removed hold the pins so they need to be reinstalled too. This removeable bracket, once installed, provides a receiver slot for the BH frame. The removeable bracket can't be installed before backing up to the hoe (I tried) because it hangs down too far and prevents backing over the BH frame. Oh yes, and while doing all this the special top link, which is attached to the BH, keeps droping in the way and preventing the tractor from backing up to engage the receiver. The pin that hold it to the BH only pulls out half way before hitting the hydraulic lines so you can't just remove it to get it out of the way.
Now you can hook up the pump, climb out from between the BH and tractor, and start to use the BH to move itself around. With a bit of manuvering of the stabilizers and boom I was able to align the frame with the rear receiver and back the tractor some more to fully engage it. There are then two standard hitch pins that drop through holes in the receiver to lock the frame in place BUT... the bracket that locks the pump to prevent it from just spinning blocks the holes for the hitch pins enough that they can't be installed SO ..... climb back between the BH and tractor (it's tighter now that they are coupled), remove the pump, install the hitch pins, then replace the pump.
OK, one attachment point down, two to go. Next is the front bracket at the middle of the tractor. This one is easier and just requires some manipulating of the BH boom to get the holes aligned and slip in a pin. The only hard part is having to run back and forth to the BH to move it a bit, then go forward and see if the holes align, then go back and move it a bit more, etc.
Last is the special top link, which with a bit more BH boom manipulation can be pinned into place. All this took over a hour. Granted it was my first time, but it's much more complex than the 3PH attachment. I can get the 4690 on my 2910 in literally 5 minutes.
Now that I've used both first hand, I think the deciding factors about which to get is even more a personal decision based on how you expect to use the BH and what else you use. The on/off of the frame is a good bit more complicated and requires removing all the 3PH parts, but once it's on it's nice and solid. The 3PH is a breeze to get on and off and leaves the 3PH intact, but it flops around a bit more once on. For me, I change implements a lot and use the BH intermittently, and am glad I have a 3PH rig. If I used the BH for long stretches at a time, The frame would be looking pretty good.
Other issues to consider are things like MMM compatibility with the permanently mounted brackets, and ground clearance, which is less with a frame.
Happy Hoeing
Peter
The obvious difference between the two hoes is their size (7' verses 9') and the extra reach of the 9' is nice and reduces the amount of time you spend repositioning the tractor. The digging power of the 9000 is clearly better, but is offset considerably by the larger bucket (maybe 18" verses 16"). In general digging speed for a tranch was about the same. If I were digging a hole, the larger bucket would clearly make for faster work.
The bigger difference is the mounting of the hoes, and will take us into the sometimes religious debate about 3PH verses frame mounts. The 9000 is a frame mount and the Kubota BH is of course 3PH mount. I've had lots of experience with the 3PH mounting, and now have some first hand experience with a frame mount, including getting it attached to the tractor, for a first hand comparison.
As many have stated, the frame mount is very solid. There is virtually no movement between the hoe and tractor and they act like a single machine. This gives a nice sense of security. The 3PH mount definitely wiggles around more, especially if the stabilizers are not lifting the tractor off the ground.
As for attaching the frame and hoe, I was not so impressed. The frame mounts to the tractor in three places. There is a bracket that permanently bolts to the tractor amidships, another bracket that bolts to the underside of the transmission case below the rear PTO, and a top link that fits like the 3PH top link. To mount the hoe, you first have to remove all the 3PH bars. This involves removing several pins and taking out two bolts. The you back the tractor over the frame, but not all the way into position. Next you have to climb between the hoe and rear of the tractor and hook a third removable brack to the permanent one on the tractor's rear, pinning it in place with the draw bar pins. Those bolts that had to be removed hold the pins so they need to be reinstalled too. This removeable bracket, once installed, provides a receiver slot for the BH frame. The removeable bracket can't be installed before backing up to the hoe (I tried) because it hangs down too far and prevents backing over the BH frame. Oh yes, and while doing all this the special top link, which is attached to the BH, keeps droping in the way and preventing the tractor from backing up to engage the receiver. The pin that hold it to the BH only pulls out half way before hitting the hydraulic lines so you can't just remove it to get it out of the way.
Now you can hook up the pump, climb out from between the BH and tractor, and start to use the BH to move itself around. With a bit of manuvering of the stabilizers and boom I was able to align the frame with the rear receiver and back the tractor some more to fully engage it. There are then two standard hitch pins that drop through holes in the receiver to lock the frame in place BUT... the bracket that locks the pump to prevent it from just spinning blocks the holes for the hitch pins enough that they can't be installed SO ..... climb back between the BH and tractor (it's tighter now that they are coupled), remove the pump, install the hitch pins, then replace the pump.
OK, one attachment point down, two to go. Next is the front bracket at the middle of the tractor. This one is easier and just requires some manipulating of the BH boom to get the holes aligned and slip in a pin. The only hard part is having to run back and forth to the BH to move it a bit, then go forward and see if the holes align, then go back and move it a bit more, etc.
Last is the special top link, which with a bit more BH boom manipulation can be pinned into place. All this took over a hour. Granted it was my first time, but it's much more complex than the 3PH attachment. I can get the 4690 on my 2910 in literally 5 minutes.
Now that I've used both first hand, I think the deciding factors about which to get is even more a personal decision based on how you expect to use the BH and what else you use. The on/off of the frame is a good bit more complicated and requires removing all the 3PH parts, but once it's on it's nice and solid. The 3PH is a breeze to get on and off and leaves the 3PH intact, but it flops around a bit more once on. For me, I change implements a lot and use the BH intermittently, and am glad I have a 3PH rig. If I used the BH for long stretches at a time, The frame would be looking pretty good.
Other issues to consider are things like MMM compatibility with the permanently mounted brackets, and ground clearance, which is less with a frame.
Happy Hoeing
Peter
