Backhoe lifting tractor ... digging force?

[boostmg]

Alright so I watched a video of a guy who has a mahindra 2638, he said one big reason he bought it is because his hoe would lift his tractor .. i guess so he could move the machine by pivoting it?

I thought this was actually a really good thing to look for. My question is .. how is this calculated? Do you look at the hoe's digging force? And then the tractor weight?

I do see the mahindra 2538 tractor weights around 3k and digging for is 3.4k lbs ... i was also looking at the TYM 394/354 and that machine weight 3k lbs and the hoes digging force was 2600 lbs maybe?

 

[crashz]

Often times I see ads selling heavy equipment with loaders and industrial backhoes up in the air. Demonstrates strong hydraulics I suppose. But a compact tractor with removable backhoe should probably stay on the ground. Even with a sub-frame, the chassis is not designed for those forces.

 

[4570Man]

There’s no good way to test it besides actually doing it. It would take a pretty wimpy hoe to fail that test.

 

[Richard]

Alright so I watched a video of a guy who has a mahindra 2638, he said one big reason he bought it is because his hoe would lift his tractor .. i guess so he could move the machine by pivoting it?

To answer your question.....YES.

When digging, you might need to adjust sideways. (the way I do it is)... Draw backhoe bucket in to near the back of machine (industrial in my case), don't want it too close, don't want it too far. Push bucket down, which will lift tractor up. Rotate bucket the opposite direction you want to go and you will go in your intended direction. Raise bucket (which lowers tractor back to ground) and continue digging.

It's not a big deal. First time you do it, it might be a bit unnerving as you are now posted on two points.... loader bucket and backhoe bucket so you might (will) feel the machine wobble a bit side to side. You don't want to jack yourself up in the air, simply lift the weight off the stabilizers.

I did that once, had a neighbor who was watching me dig (people always like to watch dirt being moved it seems......including me when I was younger!)

Anyway, he did some ooh's & aah's when he saw me move the back around like that (crabbing it). I didn't think much of it but he had never seen anyone do it.

I'd agree with above....if your hoe is decent at all, I'd expect it to lift the back up, not a big deal.

Disclaimer: I don't have any experience with tractor backhoes, just the industrial.

 

[Oldoak]

Often times I see ads selling heavy equipment with loaders and industrial backhoes up in the air. Demonstrates strong hydraulics I suppose. But a compact tractor with removable backhoe should probably stay on the ground. Even with a sub-frame, the chassis is not designed for those forces.

:thumbsup:
Excellent advice! CUTs and SCUTs are great tractors but certainly are not on par with industrial heavy equipment machines.

 

[4570Man]

Tractor backhoes and real backhoes aren’t in the same league but my tractor backhoe could still lift and move the backend sideways with loaded tires.

 

[Agvg]

In the old days when pro backhoes where built on std tractors it was designed so that the frame tok all the force of the digger, the tractor just sat in the frame for power and transport, it was common to lift the wheels of the ground so you spared axel and tires, ordinary tractor tires was soft and had almost no resistance against cuts from rocks etc so that was a pain.

 

[grm61]

Tractor backhoes and real backhoes aren稚 in the same league but my tractor backhoe could still lift and move the backend sideways with loaded tires.

Yes, probably not good for the subframe...I've done it, my tires are loaded also...after thinking about it, I try not to.

 

[Baby Grand]

There痴 no good way to test it besides actually doing it. It would take a pretty wimpy hoe to fail that test.

Exactly what I thought as I read the OP's question. Lifting the tractor with the hoe - AKA crabbing - should be possible if the hoe is sized right for the tractor. I've used crabbing to position the tractor over a trench that would be difficult to drive around due to obstructions at the work site and that needed to be a little deeper than it was to get a good slope to the pipe that was going in. If there's any doubt about the hoe's ability to lift the tractor, I'd insist that the seller demonstrate that it will do so.

 

[Gary Fowler]

A tractor with a backhoe that wont lift the tractor isn't of much use. You do need to be able to lift the tractor to reposition if needed, like when you are finished digging a ditch and want to get the tractor rear wheels back across the ditch or vice versa. I dont think I have ever seen a backhoe that would not lift the rear wheels however much depends on where the backhoe bucket is positioned. It would take strong hydraulics to lift the tractor with the boom and dipper fully extended and that might put much strain on the frame if attempted although the same amount of stress might be put on the frame when digging in extremely hard ground.

I try not to put too much strain on my TLB if possible, but I did buy it to dig and using as much force as the hydraulics will produce should not hurt the TLB if it is sized and designed correctly. Gradually increasing force as when using the hydraulics is not nearly as damaging as sharply impacting the ground/rocks with the bucket which I see being done a lot with commercial units.

 

[Egon]

Most backhoe work has the tires off of the ground so the machine can be levelled, reduce forces on the drivetrain and anchor the backhoe in place.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Most backhoe work has the tires off of the ground so the machine can be levelled, reduce forces on the drivetrain and anchor the backhoe in place.

I have seen construction operators (? the operator status) jack the backhoe up as high as it would go with all front and back wheels more than a foot off the ground. I dont see any need for that unless you are trying to get clearance to get over a wall or something.

I jack my TLB up enough to level it and just enough to take a bit of weight off the tires and settle the stabilizers in the dirt on the high side. Anything more is just wasted hydraulic power and time. Sometimes this requires the FEL bucket to be in full dump mode in order to raise the front up enough for the TLB to be level.

 

[Agvg]

It's just to reduce wear and stresses on the wheels, but here I have not seen a backhoe in commercial use the last 25 years. It's a dead machine type.

 

[Opti-Mist]

I have seen construction operators (? the operator status) jack the backhoe up as high as it would go with all front and back wheels more than a foot off the ground. I dont see any need for that unless you are trying to get clearance to get over a wall or something.

I jack my TLB up enough to level it and just enough to take a bit of weight off the tires and settle the stabilizers in the dirt on the high side. Anything more is just wasted hydraulic power and time. Sometimes this requires the FEL bucket to be in full dump mode in order to raise the front up enough for the TLB to be level.

Having been a trainer back in the day, the recommended practice was to transfer the weight of the Tractor-Loader-Backhoe to the stabilizers (and the loader bucket which was flat on the ground) to create a stable operating platform, much as Gary described above. Jacking the backhoe all the way up also reduces digging depth by the amount the tires are off the ground.

 

[Richard]

Not that this will add anything of importance.....but I do want to say that resting the front bucket on the ground substantially firms up the machine.

When I'm using mine for whatever purpose.... I can always tell when the front bucket isn't on the ground, the shake that will go through the machine is much higher. So I reach backwards, push lever until I feel it pressure down....and continue.

For me, it's almost like driving without a seat-belt on.... I feel (to use an odd word) naked and vulnerable. Put seat belt on and everything is right. With the bucket off the ground, it feels vulnerable.... push it down and all is right.