Bad day,Lost an engine

[MESSMAKER]

Heard back today. Not good news. #1 piston has significant play. Still holding together but barely. They suspect a rework of the crank and perhaps valves so engine is coming out for better look. engine out and back in is $1000 so that is where I am right now. Going to take a look at it myself tomorrow.

 

[powerscol]

Hoping for the best - good luck.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Looks like bearing was shot on first cylinder. It was still intact but the crank was worn to about twice the allowable limit. Engine is coming out. Couple of questions.

Can you get 10 over bearings for it?
Can you get bearings for it anywhere other than dealer?
Anything else I need to do while I have it split?
What would I have to do to get it up to the same power output of a ct230?

 

[LD1]

Looks like bearing was shot on first cylinder. It was still intact but the crank was worn to about twice the allowable limit. Engine is coming out. Couple of questions.

Can you get 10 over bearings for it?
Can you get bearings for it anywhere other than dealer?
Anything else I need to do while I have it split?
What would I have to do to get it up to the same power output of a ct230?

Should be able to get bearings. I have always had the company that grinds the crank supply bearings. They know their stuff. And sometimes things like the edge radius can vary. And its more than just oversized journals... do they have to oversize the thrust??

If you plan on having a "shop" do this rebuild, let them get the bearings, grind the crank, and verify fit to the block.

 

[powerscol]

Looks like bearing was shot on first cylinder. It was still intact but the crank was worn to about twice the allowable limit. Engine is coming out. Couple of questions.

Can you get 10 over bearings for it?
Can you get bearings for it anywhere other than dealer?
Anything else I need to do while I have it split?
What would I have to do to get it up to the same power output of a ct230?

Two ways I know of to get power - bigger bore, and higher compression. If it is coming out,talk to the machine shop. The only difference I believe is the block size. Perhaps before the rebuild, look for the bigger engine. Somewhere out there is a CT235 motor waiting for you.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Two ways I know of to get power - bigger bore, and higher compression.

There's also adding a turbo, increasing the boost if you already have one, and turning up the pump.

Done right, that will get you more HP fast!

SR

 

[MESSMAKER]

Getting it done at a machine shop that has a mechanic as well. They know the job, but not a lot about my engine. They have done several different brands of tractor but only one or two Daedong engines.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Anyone have a site where I can compare the engines on the 2 models?

 

[powerscol]

Anyone have a site where I can compare the engines on the 2 models?

Try here you need IE to use. Reman - Bobcat Company
If I remember tomorrow I will pull the data of my engine plate. Its a CT 235.

This might help - Its Kioti, but the engines are the same. They are shown in family's. Mine is the 165 34 HP. Stroke is the same, just bigger bore

 

[winston1]

225 is 80mm bore, 92.4 mm stroke. 230 is 83mm bore, 92.4mm stroke.

 

[powerscol]

CT 235 has an 87MM bore with the same stroke. Not sure if the injectors, or injector pump is the same. I would bet and have them go though it with a little bit of clean up (port and polish the rough casting runs to eliminate any flow disturbance (especially on the exhaust side) you could pick up a little bit. Also have the deck the head and block for a true level seal. This might up the compression a bit. There appear to be several re-man folks carrying salvaged bobcat engines out there - probably skid steer, but you might try calling to see what they have. Its too bad no one offers a turbo for our motors - would be a nice upgrade.

Also ask in the Kioti forms for thoughts and parts sources. Engines are the same.
Hope this helps

 

[oldpilgrim]

Try here you need IE to use. Reman - Bobcat Company

works fine with firefox.

 

[MESSMAKER]

CT 235 has an 87MM bore with the same stroke. Not sure if the injectors, or injector pump is the same. I would bet and have them go though it with a little bit of clean up (port and polish the rough casting runs to eliminate any flow disturbance (especially on the exhaust side) you could pick up a little bit. Also have the deck the head and block for a true level seal. This might up the compression a bit. There appear to be several re-man folks carrying salvaged bobcat engines out there - probably skid steer, but you might try calling to see what they have. Its too bad no one offers a turbo for our motors - would be a nice upgrade.

Also ask in the Kioti forms for thoughts and parts sources. Engines are the same.
Hope this helps

I guess I am already in for at least work on the crank and at least one rod and rings. Should I have it bored to 83mm? I doubt it will end up being that much more(maybe $400). 3 or 4 more horsepower would be worth a lot.

 

[powerscol]

Your talking new pistons no matter what, so why not go bigger. they can check the wall thickness before the start. Have a chat with them.. Also talk with a Kioti dealer on parts. They sometimes have much better pricing.

 

[LD1]

Why not go bigger.....future. And realistically, performance gain from a few cubic inches on a 100 cube engine is gonna be nil.

How big to overbore.....just enough to clean it up and get to the next standard size. That's it. If you go to the max note now, because you are greedy and think you will notice a difference between 30.1 and 30.4 HP.....what are you gonna do I. The future if you ever have to rebuild again?

 

[MESSMAKER]

Why not go bigger.....future. And realistically, performance gain from a few cubic inches on a 100 cube engine is gonna be nil.

How big to overbore.....just enough to clean it up and get to the next standard size. That's it. If you go to the max note now, because you are greedy and think you will notice a difference between 30.1 and 30.4 HP.....what are you gonna do I. The future if you ever have to rebuild again?

I am at 27hp now. My wish is to get to the same hp as a 230 model. Are you saying that is not possible with just the same bore as a 230?
I guess I need to find out if the injectors on the two models are the same.

 

[LD1]

I am at 27hp now. My wish is to get to the same hp as a 230 model. Are you saying that is not possible with just the same bore as a 230?

That would be my guess. Don't know the specs of the two engines in question though. But assuming you want about 10% more power, you need 10% more displacement. And that ain't gonna happen with just an over bore. And going from 27 to 30 hp isnt likely gonna be any noticeable real world differences.

 

[tjkubota93]

.060 inches is usually the largest standard overbore. That's approximately 1.5mm. You probably need the bigger engine's block to get the bore 3mm bigger.

You could probably get a decent "seat of the pants" increase by turning up your injector pump.

I have mixed different sizes of bearings to get one half way between on a worn engine. That might be why they sell them seperate. I have also shimmed worn bearings with aluminum foil.

 

[dieselcrawler]

Horsepower-wise, we are in the same place. Even if not a factory option, adding a turbo is possible. My JD 3005 has a Yanmar 1.3L motor, and fabbing up a turbo system has been on my mind since the day I bought it. If it boost is kept to a reasonable level, you can get away with no intercooler, and a mild increase in fuel, more power.

Then its a question of what is the weak link in the drivetrain, what breaks due to the extra power? Im sure I'll find out!

 

[powerscol]

I'm not sure folks understand. The same engine block (casting) is used in the CT 225, 230, and 235 is what I was told by Korea. I looked into this when looking for more power. My problem was mostly solved with an adjustment of the PRV. I have the CT 235 and the block was maxed out. I can go 20 over, but that's it. The block he has should be able to be bored out to the CT 235. What needs to be done is for his shop to check wall thickness and talk to the manufactured. They answered my email when I contacted them and I am not talking about Bobcat or Kioti, but the folks in Korea. Normally I would not go to a 60 overbore - been there with bad results. Hopefully the OP will check with both Bobcat and Kioti dealers, and Korea that have done this. Somewhere is a good solution. Heck raising the compression - surfacing the block and heads will get him a few HP and just cleaning up the intake and exhaust ports probably gain another three for a few hours work. His machine shop should be able to verify this. Being and engineer I understand how much effect a rough lip on an intake and exhaust port can cause. Something to look into. Also stock injectors are known to not all be the same. Now would be the time to have everything checked and get a matched set of injectors or have the current set serviced. I had a 7.3 diesel that went from dog to a Tasmanian devil with just an injector change - no hot rodding, just a good set of flow matched stock injectors. I had three go "bad" and had all sent to a shop in Denver to be flow tested and repaired. Turns out the bad ones weren't bad - just needed to be cleaned. Money well spent.

Hope this helps.

On edit - if you check the parts catalog, I believe you will find the drive train on the 200 series is the same. The only difference is the HP. I could be wrong, but from everything I have read I dont think so, Perhaps others could weigh in.