Bad day,Lost an engine

[LD1]

Hard to believe that they would use the same casting.....that would allow for a 7mm bore difference. That's 0.275". Mfgs are usually too lean to allow for that extra material to be wasted. .060 is more than most blocks can comfortably handle.

I am betting the smaller engine has larger coolant passages, to save material. And will not allow for that much material removal. But having a shop sonic test the walls for thickness is the only way to me sure.

And even if they are the same, I am betting something is also different in the fuel delivery system.

 

[winston1]

Parts manuals shown the 225 has cylinder liners (6695873), shows the 230 without.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Parts manuals shown the 225 has cylinder liners (6695873), shows the 230 without.

Allis Chalmers used sleeves engines in their gas and diesel tractors. We did the same thing with our old super A. Rebuilt with a super C kit. Most manufacturers used wet sleeves back in the day for easier rebuilds. If they use the same block then upping the HP is easier.

 

[winston1]

Allis Chalmers used sleeves engines in their gas and diesel tractors. We did the same thing with our old super A. Rebuilt with a super C kit. Most manufacturers used wet sleeves back in the day for easier rebuilds. If they use the same block then upping the HP is easier.

Part numbers for blocks are different.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Allis Chalmers used sleeves engines in their gas and diesel tractors. We did the same thing with our old super A. Rebuilt with a super C kit. Most manufacturers used wet sleeves back in the day for easier rebuilds. If they use the same block then upping the HP is easier.

All the A's, B's and C's used the same block, (in different variations) you had to go to an "H" to get a bigger block and the next change was the "M".

I bet it saved them a LOT of money, making engines that way...

SR

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Part numbers for blocks are different.

That because there were different variations, like hydraulics, water pumps ect...

SR

 

[MESSMAKER]

Not sure I understand. They share the same block with different part numbers, but the low hp model has a sleeve, but the others do not. Is the sleeve used to lower displacement?

 

[the old grind]

Adding a turbo by itself is sure to get you a cleaner burn, but to suggest that it would by that or other means gain noticeable/usable power is perhaps to confuse the simple result with gas engine application(s). Porting/polishing might (should) also offer the similar, if minor, minor gains but I'd expect no noticeable power increase without adjusting the pump for more fuel delivery, as suggested by SR & others.

'Read' your exhaust. Port, or better-yet t-charge if you see too much black smoke. (wasted fuel as 'tuned/tweaked') I agree that replacing with a reman, other short block, etc is the better way to up displacement, but a 'turbo & turn-up' is the only difference between an awful lot of similar class/wt machines within a brand/line, so why not if the c-shaft, rods, etc are common to the higher hp versions and up to the job. (Do have one guy do the crank & bearings as said regardless of the other bits)

btw, IMO having injectors checked/flow-matched is never a bad idea or offers a bad ROI, esp if compared to a few weeks/months worth of scratch-off Lottery tickets. Good luck! "I'm pullin' for ya!"

 

[MESSMAKER]

Can the pump on a 225 be adjusted for more flow or will I have to replace it with a 230 or 235 model injector?

I keep coming back to the question. How does the 230 make the extra 3 hp. I know 3 hp does not seem like a lot,but on this machine, it is about 10%.

 

[winston1]

Not sure I understand. They share the same block with different part numbers, but the low hp model has a sleeve, but the others do not. Is the sleeve used to lower displacement?

May not understand because there is conversation about Allis Chalmers and Bobcat. The Bobcat 225 and 230 do not share the same block. According to Bobcat parts manual they have different part numbers plus the 230 block has cylinder sleeves. The 225 does not. I am saying they are completly different based on that information.

There is 6.1 cubic inches difference, I have no idea whether that is the only factor in the hp difference. Wouldn't doubt it but pure speculation on my part.

Further research shows both 225 and 230 use the same injection pump.

 

[MESSMAKER]

May not understand because there is conversation about Allis Chalmers and Bobcat. The Bobcat 225 and 230 do not share the same block. According to Bobcat parts manual they have different part numbers plus the 230 block has cylinder sleeves. The 225 does not. I am saying they are completly different based on that information.

There is 6.1 cubic inches difference, I have no idea whether that is the only factor in the hp difference. Wouldn't doubt it but pure speculation on my part.

Further research shows both 225 and 230 use the same injection pump.

Thanks
That clears it up a bit.

 

[the old grind]

Ted explains turning up an injector pump in context in what is IMO very worth watching. Being turbo-equipped, the big Ford will surely gain more with more airflow at PTO, but he goes a bit beyond a 10% increase. Note that power is measured at a constant (PTO) rpm.:
Turning Up the Fuel on a Diesel Turbo Charged Tractor New Holland TL-9� by Everything Attachments - YouTube

This isn't hot-rod stuff where you push torque peak up with cam timing and incremental flow improvements to gain hp at//by higher rpm, it's about a diesel that gets plenty of air at any rpm but burns only what fuel is metered by the pump/governor to keep rpm/power up to demand in 'x'-gear/range.

 

[winston1]

not that is matters but I think this Kioti pump is the identical pump used on the 225 and 230 and others. E58-5115 - Injection Pump Assembly for Kioti | TractorJoe.com

Basing that on this Warranty claim. ftp://demss.co.kr/doss/claim/20100125-197/10504699.pdf

 

[MESSMAKER]

Speaking of parts
rods=$1000
rings=$200
bearings=$150 plus
Ouch

 

[winston1]

Speaking of parts
rods=$1000
rings=$200
bearings=$150 plus
Ouch

New rods required?? Wondering why?

 

[boomer1025]

New rods required?? Wondering why?

.
If the rod bearings spun or the wrist pins were seized in the rod bushings then they would have to be replaced.

 

[LD1]

I too am curious why new rods are needed. Rods can be resized. Lots cheaper than buying new

 

[boomer1025]

I too am curious why new rods are needed. Rods can be resized. Lots cheaper than buying new

.
My best guess, the bearing end of the rod is burnt blue from the lack oil which would change the property of metal.
The engine needs torn completely down and the components need checked for damage and wear. Without seeing the damage it's hard to advise what needs replaced and what can be reused. Also might want to check and see if there are any reman components offered for the engine.

 

[powerscol]

Just a thought, but he might be $$$$ ahead ordering a short block from one of the reman folks - they are out there.

 

[MESSMAKER]

Can't find anything but full replacement motors in the $4500 range.