Ballast Box Loading

[Ashland268]

In a few days I’ll take delivery of a new Cat1 Titan ballast box. It has a max weight rating of 800#. Was planning on concrete.

Not even an hour after I ordered it a buddy told me he has a big piece of lead he wants to get out of his garage (10” h x 12” w x 18” L). Free.

By my calculation this thing should weigh right about 1k#.

Can anyone see any huge downside to carefully placing it inside my new BB with some sand around it to dampen any shifting….. and tractor on?

FWIW I did call Titan about this “overload” situation and they obviously couldn’t recommend it due to liability concerns….but the tech also said it was my “call”.

 

[grsthegreat]

No idea. My jd ballast box was rated about 700#, but they offered a top extension that took it to 1,200 pounds. I personally think this was more of a cf of concrete weighs so much thing. Adding the extension didnt change anything else. And it held just a tad over 1,200 pounds of concrete.


from jd site

• Weight of Rear Ballast Box – 88 lbs
• Weight Filled with Sand – 616 lbs
• Weight Filled with Concrete – 780 lbs

John Deere Ballast Box Side Extension Kit

The ballast box extension kits simply extends the side of the standard ballast box to increase it's overall capacity. The extension kit is probably only required on large 4000 series or 5000 series tractors where large amounts of counter weight are needed.

• Weight of sand filled ballast box with no extensions - 616 lbs
• Weight of sand filled ballast box with extensions - 800 lbs
• Weight of cement filled ballast box with extensions - 1,330 lbs

 

[4570Man]

That lead block is worth more as lead than a counter weight. Scrap it or sell it to a reloader and use cement for weight.

 

[dougtrr2]

I think your weight is okay. I found two place on the internet (so it must be right) that list a cubic inch of lead at .41lbs per cubic inch. Your block, 10 x 12 x 18, is 2,160 cubic inches. Multiply 2160 x .41 and you come up with 885lbs. Odds are that block is not pure lead so the weight would be slightly less.

At least that is what my math comes up with.

Lead is soft, you could cut off a little to get the weight down.

Doug in SW IA

 

[oosik]

First - I agree with the cubic inches within the ballast box. However - a cubic foot is 1728 cubic inches. 2160/1728 = 1.25 x 807 = 1008 pounds.

Ashlands calculations are spot on. 4570 man is right on also. The lead is worth more to sell to a reloader than to use as ballast.

Sand is cheap - use it. Easier to load/unload.

 

[Deere Dude]

I would sell the lead and fill the box with heavy rocks with concrete used to fill the voids. Pretty cheap if you have rocks.
I mounted a chainsaw scabbard in the weight box before filling and works great for carrying my saw.

 

[k0ua]

One advantage of using the lead for ballast is that the Center of Gravity for the box would be lower than a concrete filled box. Always a good thing on a tractor. But the lead is mighty tempting for a reloader too. With the lead down low and not taking up much space in the box, you can put other things in the box you might need to carry on your tractor. I would not worry about the slight extra weight in the box. Should not be a problem. Having your tires stuck to the ground in all situations is a good thing. A good safe thing.

 

[k0ua]

One thing you may not have thought much about is how you are going to transfer the lead weight from your friends garage and into your ballast box. That little chore might not be as easy as you would think.

 

[Ashland268]

Thank you everyone, I appreciate your comments very much. I know what the lead is worth but a friend doesn’t take something from a friend under the assumption that he’s going to put it to use….and then go sell it. At least this friend doesn’t. If I did, I’d give him the money.

*when WWZ starts, I’ll cast bullets and share them with everyone. Until then it’ll be in my ballast box buried in sand with my chains and a small toolbox in the remaining space. If it somehow breaks the box, I’ll figure out a plan B.

P.S. I used 708#/ft3 x 1.4 ft3 to come up with the mass of lead.

Added : We are going to put in in my truck bed tomorrow morning with his engine hoist. From there I’m going to pluck it out with my tractor using the hook molded into the lead.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Can always reinforce to box with some angle iron if needed.

 

[Doughknob]

800x1.25= 1000. 800x1.5= 1200. It is standard industry practice to use a design factor of safety of 1.25 or 1.5. And then on top of that i have experience over 30 years of testing that typically show steel systems fail beyond the design criteria.................most of the time

 

[Deere Dude]

Thank you everyone, I appreciate your comments very much. I know what the lead is worth but a friend doesn’t take something from a friend under the assumption that he’s going to put it to use….and then go sell it. At least this friend doesn’t. If I did, I’d give him the money.

Very good point. Would lose a friend that way.

 

[Diggin It]

These box threads come up all the time, but I have to wonder about the notion of having the weight tucked in so close to the rear/wheels. For the intended purpose of moving the fulcrum point further back (may not have that worded exactly right), isn't it better to have the weight extended more? A tiller or mower for example? Yes, I know, they add length that can be a problem in close quarters. And I know they can cost more if you don't have any other need for them.

 

[shooterdon]

These box threads come up all the time, but I have to wonder about the notion of having the weight tucked in so close to the rear/wheels. For the intended purpose of moving the fulcrum point further back (may not have that worded exactly right), isn't it better to have the weight extended more? A tiller or mower for example? Yes, I know, they add length that can be a problem in close quarters. And I know they can cost more if you don't have any other need for them.

You are correct. My pull blower weighs 965 lbs. It will be better ballast than a ballast box and is "free".

But not the best for working in the woods if I need to grapple logs out. And not easy to carry a chainsaw, tools, chains etc.

 

[Ashland268]

Thanks Dough…..that’s what I was hoping was the case. I figure the box, lead, sand and a few tools is going to put me around 1300#.

The reason I want the extra weight out back is because I’ve been hauling appx 2000# IBC totes full of water out to a couple of spots on my land. It’s about 1/3 mile from the well pump and the last 200 yards has some interesting terrain that’s spooked me a couple of times now.

I have filled tires (Beet Juice) and have been using my 850# 3pt brush bull up to now. (10’ off the back of the QH make tight turns in the woods rough)

I’m hoping a 1300# BB will be at least as good as a 10’ mower with a longer lever arm. Anybody know that math????

 

[Diggin It]

^^ I would NOT do that. I'd set them on a trailer and haul them to the location, then lift off and place. You could be doing some nasty things to your front end parts.

Front End Loaders on tractors are for loading, not carrying heavy loads any distance.

 

[metalbender]

My ballast box is filled with Lyman ingots. Six hundred plus lbs worth. Better than having them sit in the garage.

 

[Ashland268]

Point taken Diggin……long term I’m thinking either a trailer or possibly 3ph forks maybe?

That said, I know someone who’s been using his 4 series JD to shuttle 6’ round bales out to haul trucks …… much further than I’m going……all summer long. No issues - he says.

I take it super slow with the IBC tote balanced and ratchet strapped to the headache rack on the forks. It’s all I have right now.
With the drought up here…..the water holes are my biggest draw right now. By far. Bears, wolves, coyote, deer, fisher, bobcats, and turkeys on my last camera card.

 

[SmallChange]

I bought this item on Amazon two years ago:

Titan Attachments Ballast Box for 3 Point Category 1 Tractor and Loader Hitches
4.4 out of 5 stars 111 ratings
Currently unavailable.
We don't know when or if this item will be back in stock.
800 lb. Capacity | Fits Standard 3 Point Category 1 Hitch
Lower Lifts Pins and Top Link Pin Included | Sliding Front Door
Use With Sand, Steel, Concrete, Gravel, Rocks, etc. - Integrated Tool Holders
Volume: 5.3 cu. ft. | Finish: Powder Coated
Box Dimensions: 25.5" x 24.25" x 15.75" | Weight: 132 lbs
2" hitch ball receiver makes it easier to tow while using(Hitch ball not included)

It sounds similar to what you're getting, though "Titan" and "Titan Attachments" are two different companies IIRC. I caulked and sealed some interior seams and then put two large pieces of scrap steel in the bottom and filled around them with concrete mix, and used pourable self leveling concrete for the last pour after carefully leveling the box on my 3PT with boards cribbed under it to support the weight. When this had cured a week or two, I poured liquid Flex Seal (the kind that comes in a paint can) over the concrete and painted it up onto the inner sides. I think I have a perfectly sealed assembly that wouldn't allow water in to rust the box out from the inside. I carefully calculated everything to bring the total weight up to 800 lbs, its rated capacity. It's not filled all the way to the top, there's about 4" of depth still available, which makes for a storage tray (I keep my rubber Harbor Freight wheel chocks in there). I don't think I could have hit 800 lbs even completely filling the box with concrete, if I didn't have those big steel blocks in there. I think they were about 18" by 24" by 3", as I remember. I also put a solid steel bar across the top on the center line, with an eye bolt so I can lift this with my overhead hoist. An 800 lb box is pretty difficult to move otherwise.

If I had your lead block, I'd take it to a recycler. Lead that big is valuable.

Your original question boils down to: is there a downside to putting a block that's 25% heavier than the rated limit into your box? Well, yeah. I'd always be worried the next bump would be the one to wrench the pins upward.

 

[Ashland268]

Update : the lead block - i found out it’s original use was as front ballast on a very old tractor. It has a eye hook molded into the top ( balance point) which made it real easy to chain up and slowly lower it into the box. It just barely fit.

I cheated it as far rearward in the box as I could, then filled it with sand up to the level of the hook. Box (136#) plus lead (1000#) plus sand (200#) put me at 1336# theoretically. The box is only half full….leaving the rest for storage, which I like.

I gave it a good test moving some heavy buckets of dirt on a slight side hill and carrying that 225 gallon water tote on the forks….and it feels MUCH more planted than it did with a 10’ long mower hanging off the back (#850). Not to mention being able to turn on a dime in the woods.

The big bet is that my chinesium box can handle 125% of its rated capacity. Time will tell I guess.