Barn 40x44x14 - got quotes...

[ITHINKICAN]

The building we are most interested in is the Big Barn XL 40x60x16. We went to Logic Dimension (a referral of Mueller) early last week and they showed us two mid size buildings on their property. They mentioned using wood framing to save money and go smaller to save even more money. We told them we want metal and we would prefer the 40x60x16. While we were at their place they said they recently built a 40x60x16 - we said we would like to see it. They said it would be no problem to check their references. We followed up with an email that they ignored - second email they said they would get back to us immediately after they obtained permission - third email request was yesterday. I will call Mueller today and get the name of another install company.

Eco, Did you say you did the install yourself? Do you want to do another?

 

[ecoslik]

It would be fun to do another. Certainly, I'm happy to provide any advice that I can.

Mueller's Big Barn XL is what we have. IMO, it requires 6 people when erecting and bolting the structure to really ensure that it is erected square and plumb. It is not like a welded building so it doesn't require the same pay grade as a quality erection/welding crew, but an attention to detail and adequate crew size is important for timely and quality completion.

I hired 3-4 person crew (some days 3 and some days 4) with some steel building experience but who are jacks of all trades and who have done all sorts of work around our property (ex. built mother-in-law house, tile work in main house, repaint exterior of main house, etc), plus we added 3 guys with some steel building experience for extra hands, especially for all the screws. As I described, above, I paid the group $5500 for labor (excluding concrete), and I picked up the cost of materials and misc supplies.

Incidentally, I had them pop lines with chalk so that screws were in a straight line. When done, I used a water hose for 30-60 minutes on roof to determine if raintight (found 3 leaks). A leak usually means that a screw wasn't set straight, seated to depth to properly compress the screws integral gasket, or overtightened. We did a punchlist/warranty inspection for labor defects last week, we found one item: a 4' man-door frame needed adjustment which required 15 minutes.

I did many things, but it would be unfair to say that I built it. Yes, I am capable and provided about half of the supervision. I did a lot, but the guys like to joke that I'm the hovering homeowner. I develop commercial property so have been around construction for a very long time, even worked construction at an early age, and enjoy hard and heavy work. But, I'm not a tradesman; I'm a businessman who likes the sun, dirt, sweat, and to start and finish projects. It is my man cave!! :laughing:

 

[ecoslik]

For these types of projects, my goal is to find people versus companies, and then we build a team around the core people.

I believe that Mueller has some individuals on their lists. I interviewed a couple myself. You might review the list of welder/erectors. The old school types from that list, usually, have experience with erecting; the bolt-together buildings require less skill, and the welders usually come in pairs (master and high quality helper). In this case, they are not working as welders, but are erectors and supervisors.

If you find a team of 2, undoubtedly, they can find extra hands. The 2 should be on site and approve the concrete form layout and cast-in anchor bolt placement. The concrete team will have the transom for accurate layout, but the 2 must approve the layout since it is a major PIA if the bolts are not perfect relative to the holes that are in the base of the steel columns. In commerical construction, we have ways of fudging this, but if the concrete team and the erection team are read the riot act and told to both approve it before concrete is poured, then fudgning it isn't necessary or desirable. I tell the erector and concrete guys that I want the bolt layout perfect, no stains or major scratches on concrete keeping 6 sheets of 4'x8' around during erection to protect when needed, want the entire slab flat with no more deflection than 1/4" over 10' (OR LESS).

If you start the erection team by finding a core team of 2, is very important to specifically discuss and be persistant that they build a team of (approx) 6 so that the job doesn't take forever, and so that there are enough hands to simultaneously tighten and align 3 connections, run a lift, plus one extra to be a runner (spot for the lift operator, verify measurements, pass tools and materials to any and all). The 2 would be higher paid (maybe $240-$300 per day), and the extras paid much less. My 3 extras were between jobs, and we offered approx. 5 days of work, a min hours per day (some days more), and a set per hour price for the 3. They decided how to split the per hour price.

 

[davo727]

How many yards of concrete in the $12,000 slab?

 

[ecoslik]

I don't know exactly, because the concrete was a "not to exceed" price, and I had a chance to have some extra thickness and depth added to the high side beams to make sure we had a minimum of 5"+. Since I had a chance to ask for some refinements to the form depth before the pour, I had to leave for about an hour.

We are about 2 miles from a batch plant.

I believe there were 7 mix trucks, and if each were full, then 70 yards total or 64 yards if a bit less than full. If I misjudge, then I'd guess 8 trucks.

 

[wedge40]

How many yards of concrete in the $12,000 slab?

Isn't $350/yard the going rate?

Wedge

 

[ecoslik]

I pay about $1000 per mix truck which equates to about $100/yd except most trucks have closer to 9.75 yds versus 10 which is max volume but so close to weight limit that sometimes they back off and sometimes they don't. Of course it may make a difference/cheaper that I live about 2 miles from a batch plant, and I buy through a concrete company that has been buying from this plant for 30 years (+/-).

 

[davo727]

Yeah seemed high, I was trying to figure out the profit they made, what was the slab dimensions and how thick and did they put in any cross beams or perimeter footings? Rebar?

Isn't $350/yard the going rate?

Wedge

 

[ecoslik]

We could have saved money, but I am stacking to 16' and didn't want to crack the slab or breakout the lip when driving through or parking the tractor (foamed rear tires) in building.

Tonight, I checked the receipt, the concrete was less than $12000.

$11,200.
60'L x 40'W
12"W x 18"D cross beam through length and width
24"W x 18"D spread footings
5"+ (min.) slab [Slight slope downhill side is maybe 7"-8"]
Rebar in beams and footings are larger (can't remember #8?)
Rebar throughout slab is smaller (can't remember #4?)
Drip edge detail on perimeter for metal siding building panels.
Recess detail at 2-qty OVH doors.
Finish: no surface bubbles, stains, scratches, irregularities.
Flatness: no "oil panning," no slope greater than 1/4" per 10'

 

[ITHINKICAN]

A little birdie told me heitjer has some photos to share - :thumbsup:

We should also give heitjer his thread back...

eco, I sent you a private msg - let me know. thanx!