Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[sailfast]

You are comparing apples and oranges . By that line of thinking why isn稚 the mile being ran under two minutes by Olympic athletes . I never said anything about computer power. Lead acid battery capacity is topped out . NiCad battery capacity is topped out . Lithium battery capacity is topped out , get over it .
The laws of physics are not changed by good intentions , well wishes and high ideals . There is a limit to how much energy that can be stored per pound of lithium, just as there is a btu limit to a gallon of gasoline .
Unless you have discovered some new element on the periodic table, there is no new material to make a battery from that operates at room temperature and at atmospheric pressure .
Ask a chemist or electrical engineer that works in the real world . Instead of employees of a firm that makes promises to keep bringing in the Goverment and university research grants .

I've touched some of those advanced lithium batteries coming up, I have one sitting in a drawer.
The problem isn't their existence... The problem is in mass production at competitive cost, mine was hand made by a guy in a lab coat. Production will be figured out.

 

[buickanddeere]

I can see electric cars having a large market share in the future, but batteries are not going to be the energy of choice.

hydrogen fuel cells make a lot more sense, the biggest one being a true claim on being far less polluting. Batteries are dirty, if you say otherwise, it's fanboism.

Hydrogen fuel cells or burning hydrogen in an ICE both work BUT..........where pray tell are you sourcing the hydrogen from and how are you transporting/storing the hydrogen .

 

[buickanddeere]

I see the EV's of today being more like the ICE's of the 1920's. A 100 years later the ICE power plant has evolved a lot but still dumps 80 gallons of gas by products into our living environment for every 100 gallons we put into the gas tank. This is in your face and up your nose local pollution that is starting to bother me in a physical way. If this could be functionally address the car makers would have done so long ago instead of saying they are stopping develop

Liberals ment of ICE's.

Hydrogen fuel cell usage to power EV's can become a common place by 2050 I expect but there are many Cons besides pollution to be conquered over the next 30 years if this happens by 2050 it would seem.
12 Hydrogen Fuel Cells Pros and Cons Vittana.org

Today the development of batteries for EV's continue in most all countries and universities around the world. Solid state batteries could prevent hydrogen fuel cell usage ever going main stream in EV's.
The Inventor of the Lithium-Ion Battery Invents an Even Better One

Today's lithium ion technology is not without issues in performance and environmental impacts. My 2016 Nissan Leaf SV is showing a 35% degradation mileage wise at 21K miles so instead of a 107 travel range it is down to more like 70 miles like the former 24 kWh battery pack instead of the 30 kWh battery pack that I have. There is a software update that many owners say that reversed the perceived degradation and gave them back the full 107 mile range and made the state of Battery Health Meter (SOH) read 100% again. I bought the car with 9/12 SOH bars showing. When it hits 8/12 bars is when Nissan will look at and address the issue. One thing that indicates a software issue in my mind is this issue with the 30 kWh Leaf batteries are being reported on Leafs built in the USA (TN) but not ones built in the UK with the same size battery.

Usage and how they are charged can be a huge factor in the life and performance of lithium ion batteries. It is not a settled science because the technology changes all of the time. Tesla cars use several different types of batteries for example and changes can occur mid model year. Leaf got the 'lizard" technology being phased in in 2013 but did not make it the stated standard until the 2015 model year. This is one reason the 2015 year is popular. While some S trim 2016's got the 24 kWh battery some of the late 2016's actually got the 30 kWh batteries like the 2016 SV and SL models got started on 2016. All 2017 Leafs got the 30 kWh batteries. Gen 2 Leafs came with either the 40 kWh or 62 kWh batteries.

As you can see from the above there is a heck of lots of differences in Nissan Leaf and Tesla batteries that are currently in a state of flux.

Currently I am testing performance in miles and voltage of each of the 96 cells before I go for the software upgrade. In fact I do not know if it has or not has been upgraded yet.

Yes 20 years from now EV's will have fewer unknowns I expect but someone has adopt the early technology to get to better EV technology by trial and error. It is my guess the future EV's will not be lithium ion or hydrogen powered.

Equating today痴 EV痴 with 1920痴 ICE vehicles ? How ?
1920痴 vehicle痴 did not have aerodynamics, ABS brakes , airbags etc .
Today痴 EV痴 already have high efficiency motors , low rolling friction tires/brakes/wheel bearings. Low drag aerodynamics , regen braking , L2 and L3 charging .
Where are you going to find a material better than lithium to store power ?
The only gains are going to be through new tech. Something as different as the horse and buggy is from the ICE vehicle .

 

[buickanddeere]

My arrived yesterday. It plugs into DC charging port that bypasses both the battery charges. I have not taken it apart yet or found a schematic for the Leaf DC charging port. My brain tells me there has to be some magic somewhere for 400 volts of DC to turn into 120 volts a AC. To me it looks like an off the shelf China make 120 volt power strip with a CHAdeMO connector replacing the 120 volt male end. When I get a chance I will see if I can find any user feedback that is is not just a smoke maker.

Where is the inverter ? Hidden in the plug ?

With that being said I know Nissan developed technology to use Leaf cars in Japan to feed back into the power grid more like a powerwall scheme. Some used them like whole house back up generators claiming to get 2 days of back up power.

Where is the inverter ? Hidden in the plug ?

 

[buickanddeere]

That's an interesting story, California.

I read an article a while back about India making a big push towards EVs. That's in spite of the fact that a substantial portion of their electricity is generated from coal, and their electrical grid is horrible. That means there is significant power loss between the power plant and the end user.

These factors mean that their EVs are not saving the planet, but that's not their goal. They are just trying to ease the obviously unhealthy local pollution levels in their major cities.

The EV is a feel good project that makes most people feel good while making a few people a pocket full of cash .

 

[buickanddeere]

I would really like to see an alternative fueled vehicle become a reality but when I read ,all too often, the statement that "For every 100 gallons of gasoline in a ICE 80 gallons is dumped into the atmosphere"it really turns me off. I think this is a huge exaggeration and totally unnecessary.
I was born and raised in the mountains of Co. and visited Los Angeles the first time in 1957,so I know what pollution is. It reminded me a lot of the pics California posted of India,but so much has been done it's not even close any more.
I truly believe that enough people are on board for clean air that exaggeration is not necessary.

The natives called the LA basin the 天alley of Smokes several centuries prior to white man first visiting the region. LA and district are in a stagnant air pocket due to the mountains and the ocean. No SUV痴 on the road back then.

 

[buickanddeere]

As more residential solar becomes a reality, the utilities will be happy to find a market for their surplus capacity (likely off peak at that).

On a different topic, I always wondered why EVs didn't have a small, super efficient, constant speed, diesel generator on board to extend range, emergency back up etc.

Utilities will be happy to find a market for surplus capacity at off peak? What ? PV panels are bankrupting power utilizes as the daytime surplus of power is driving down the wholesale price of power . Sales of peak power is what pays the bills . Off peak power does not even break even on generation and transportation costs .

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Desulphurisation | Cobalt Institute

I did not realize the ICE fuel was the largest user of cobalt with all the talk about EV use of cobalt and its mining.

 

[Snobdds]

Desulphurisation | Cobalt Institute

I did not realize the ICE fuel was the largest user of cobalt with all the talk about EV use of cobalt and its mining.

Did you even read that article...?

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Did you even read that article...?

Yes, I was wrong about the volume used in refining crude oil because most is used is used in batteries like in our cell phones, power tools and EV batteries.

I was not aware of the complexity of making and burning gas and diesel fuels and the use of cobalt in some processes as well as the harm to humans from burning them.

An evaluation of desulfurization technologies for sulfur removal from liquid fuels - RSC Advances (RSC Publishing) DOI:1.139/C1RA9G

2. Effect of sulfur on the environment
The pollution emitted by vehicular engines greatly affects the air quality. The sulfur compounds are converted to sulfur oxides by combustion, and these ultimately lead to acid rain.5? Sulfur dioxide and other combustion related pollutants from sulfur compound containing fuels lead to environmental concerns such as smog, global warming and water pollution.8 Even with more stringent heavy-duty highway engine standards, these engines will continue to emit large amounts of nitrogen oxides (NOx) and particulate matter (PM) both of which contribute to serious public health problems. The PM present in diesel exhaust is likely to cause high levels of lung cancer in humans. Other health effects include aggravation of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases, aggravation of existing asthma, chronic bronchitis and decreased lung function. Therefore, desulfurization of fuels is extremely important in the petroleum industry.

Getting cobalt out of EV batteries is a challenge it seems.

Elon Musk wants cobalt out of his batteries — here’s why that’s a challenge - The Verge