Beginner welder recs

[bunchgrass]

I know this is jumping into a pissing match but as far as Made in the USA goes, it doesn't mean much anymore. There have been a number of reductions in what is "required" to be allowed to use that label. Also, an importer based in the US is keeping money here as well.

The imported welder that I can afford is still worth more to me than the Miller that I can't afford.

 

[Chilly807]

The imported welder that I can afford is still worth more to me than the Miller that I can't afford.

That's a good point, Miller IS expensive.. no question. In fact, they're in the process of pricing themselves out of the casual user market, which 90% of us fit into.

My budget is pretty restrictive, primarily because I don't like spending any more than I absolutely have to. Most would call me cheap, my wife just shakes her head. I probably would have choked at the price of the Miller 180, but as I mentioned earlier, it was gratis.

Where I draw the line is if I think I may have to buy something twice. If it's something non-critical and it has a decent warranty, I'll take a chance and buy a less-than-top-shelf item. Stuff that I know will be used hard over a long period (chainsaws for example) usually end up being high end choices.

My welders might get a couple of hours use every month, and none of that is steady use. I'd dearly love to have a 252 Mig, and a Tig machine, and a plasma cutter, the list goes on. The deciding factor is always, "How much will I use it, and can I justify the expense?"

Those that think quality welds are hard to get using migs, or that stick welders are antiquated, or that inverters are unreliable, usually have a bad experience to draw that conclusion from. Or they may have just listened to the same tune over and over. Popular opinion is just that, whether justified or not.

Sean

 

[flusher]

The problem with self taught MIG welding is often the excessive focus on pretty welds rather than penetration. As you point out, any weld can be cleaned up to look pretty but poor penetration cannot be fixed with a grinder. .

You're right--the critical time to use your grinder is BEFORE you run the weld bead to produce a decent bevel and clean up the mill scale.

 

[weesa20]

So to complicate things farther, i checked my elect panel in the shop and it has 2 220V circuits but with only 40A breakers- enough to run the Everlast PA200 but not enough to handle the other AC/DC units out there...I am pretty sure I could upgrade one of the 220V circuits to a 50A but it would just be more added expense...but it would not be hard I could just run the new wire where the one of the 40A circuits are (about 1 foot from the panel...)

 

[IslandTractor]

I wouldn't complain about a 40amp 220 circuit. Unless you are doing production welds on greater than half inch steel that really should not be a limitation, especially with an inverter based machine.

 

[Scooby074]

Miller employees 1300+ here with full benefits, 11 holidays, shutdown over christmas, training allowances, good pay, and next to no employee turnover. To me , theyre doing something right.

How many does everlast employ in their warehouse? 6 on forklifts and a couple to answer the phone? (exaggeration i know) Are they Part timers or full time with benefits?

I see alot of people saying "I cant afford miller, so i buy whatever". Personally i dont need instant gratification, when i want something i save to get it. Its not like a blue machine (particularly a stick welder) is that much more than an import everlast... a few hundred dollars at most. We've sold our manufacturing base down the river for instant gratification.

 

[Scooby074]

So to complicate things farther, i checked my elect panel in the shop and it has 2 220V circuits but with only 40A breakers- enough to run the Everlast PA200 but not enough to handle the other AC/DC units out there...I am pretty sure I could upgrade one of the 220V circuits to a 50A but it would just be more added expense...but it would not be hard I could just run the new wire where the one of the 40A circuits are (about 1 foot from the panel...)

You probably wont have any issues with a thunderbolt on 40A. Id just run wire rated for 50A to the plug (since you have to wire it anyways). If you have issues with being underfused, upgrade the breaker at a later date.

 

[Haywire]

Unfortunately, these threads always veer off of what makes a good welder for a beginner and ends up being a debate about what's imported and what's not. It gets old.

Buy what will suit your needs and what your pocketbook will allow.

Ian

 

[weesa20]

I wouldn't complain about a 40amp 220 circuit. Unless you are doing production welds on greater than half inch steel that really should not be a limitation, especially with an inverter based machine.

Yeah, I thought about just trying it to see if it would pop the breakers (Hobart AC/DC welder pulls max of 47.5A at 220V) My understanding is that if the circuit is overloaded, it will pop the breaker, correct?

 

[Scooby074]

Yeah, I thought about just trying it to see if it would pop the breakers (Hobart AC/DC welder pulls max of 47.5A at 220V) My understanding is that if the circuit is overloaded, it will pop the breaker, correct?

yes it will pop the breaker. But you will never see max draw on that machine. youll likely be in the 90-130A sweet spot.

 

[weesa20]

yes it will pop the breaker. But you will never see max draw on that machine. youll likely be in the 90-130A sweet spot.

Potential damage to the welder if it pops the breaker?

 

[bunchgrass]

More important is that you have large enough wire to carry the current. If you upgrade a breaker but have too small of wire going from the receptacle to the breaker, the breaker won't trip but the wire can/will overheat with potential fire issues.

Sorry if I'm getting off the beginning welder topic but this seems like a relevant point. My question regarding wiring is this: my service panel is pretty far from where I need to put my welder - like 60 ft. Do I need to run even heavier gauge wire due to the distance from my panel to my welder? I assume there's the similar drop in power you see with running long extension cords.

I don't see how tripping a breaker once in a while would hurt the welder.
And don't worry too much about other loads in your panel except those that might run at the same time as you would be welding - lights, maybe a heater ....

 

[IslandTractor]

Potential damage to the welder if it pops the breaker?

No, it should not hurt the welder. Again, an inverter machine is more efficient so if you need absolute max capability from 40amps make sure you get an inverter based welder.

 

[Scooby074]

Potential damage to the welder if it pops the breaker?

Nope. Breakers pop all the time. thats their job, O/C protection. They wont damage anything downstream from them, theyre just an on/off switch.

 

[weesa20]

More important is that you have large enough wire to carry the current. If you upgrade a breaker but have too small of wire going from the receptacle to the breaker, the breaker won't trip but the wire can/will overheat with potential fire issues.

Sorry if I'm getting off the beginning welder topic but this seems like a relevant point. My question regarding wiring is this: my service panel is pretty far from where I need to put my welder - like 60 ft. Do I need to run even heavier gauge wire due to the distance from my panel to my welder? I assume there's the similar drop in power you see with running long extension cords.

I don't see how tripping a breaker once in a while would hurt the welder.
And don't worry too much about other loads in your panel except those that might run at the same time as you would be welding - lights, maybe a heater ....

What I have read says that there is nominal voltage drop with runs less than 150'

Yeah, all the lights and receptacles are on dedicated circuits and the two 220V circuits are also dedicated outlets. I understand the "upgrade the wire before you upgrade the breaker" concept and would plan to use 6-8 AWG if was going to upgrade to a 50A circuit, I believe it currently has 12AWG but I may be wrong- my electrician wired it when I built the shop. If i end up needing more amperage I will probably just have him come back since it won't take him long to add a circuit- although I may lose one of my 220V circuits- I know I have 400A service to the house but I'm not sure what he ran to the shop- might only be 125A cause i remember wondering why he didn't run 200A...

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

If the wire is rated for the 40 amps, it shouldn't be an issue if it were run on a 50 amp breaker though. The NEC allows downrating of wiring for welders that are duty cycle limited machines. That means a machine that isn't going to be on heavy demand for hours at a time doesn't require the same wire protection.

 

[weesa20]

Crap- looks like I'm going to need a new circuit anyway- panel has two 20A breakers blocked together labeled 220V and the outlet is marked "20A 250V" which makes this only a 20A circuit- also, looks like 14AWG wire (white romex) but hard to tell just looking in the outlet box.

 

[rcurrie]

Code is 8 guage wire for a 40 amp circuit. A qualified electrician would know this and wouldn't use anything smaller. 40 amp should be enough to handle any hobby welding projects.

 

[Shield Arc]

Miller IS expensive.. no question. In fact, they're in the process of pricing themselves out of the casual user market

In my opinion that's exactly what Miller / ITW wants! To me it seems as ever since ITW bought Miller and Hobart, Hobart has been directed towards the home owner. Hobart use to make some fine industrial machines, 400-amp engine drives and the like. Not anymore, at least to my knowledge.

 

[bunchgrass]

I'm not an electrician but I did all my house and shop wiring and if I recall, #12 wire was used in 20amp protected runs and #14 was used in 15amp runs. I thought everyone ran #12 for the basic receptacle/light runs.

Glad to here that voltage drop is considered insignificant in <125ft runs. So now those crappy welds I'm throwing with my rusty old tombstone are completely my fault -

Also - how come there only seems to be 2 marketing lines (in many tools) - the made for use 8hrs/day 365 or made for the "hobbyist" who might weld 1/yr. There's a lot of room between those extremes.