Best Mountain Tractor?

   / Best Mountain Tractor? #21  
83% huh? I'll bet that if you throw in the limbs, rocks, and groundhog holes, flatlanders, like myself will have an extremely increased pucker power and come up with over 100%. I have been here 15yrs and a tractor on these hills still scares the *@%% out of me./w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif
Bill
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #22  
That calculation looks right to me. Having done it a few times, I have no continuing desire to ride a sliding machine down a hill hoping that I get to the gentler slope before it trips.
When I look at a 45 degree hill I don't think tractor, I think about some type of stout climbing rope and a tree to tie it to, to hold me just long enough to look at the scenery.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#23  
I'm wondering if maybe one of those sky hooks might help. Actually, I'm way over taking the risks that amped me up when I was younger. The area that we will clear for pasture, orchard and such does't exceed 30. That's still mighty steep in my book, so I'm trying to pay attention to whatever will make the ride safer...wider wheels, weight, low center of gravity. The more I think on it, I must admit I like those outrider wheels on the rig you suggested Charlie...just can't climb the price hill as easily as some of you guys can.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #24  
Don't know a lot about figuring the %/degree ratio but when I see a hwy sign warning truckers of a 7% or more grade, there is usually a runaway truck ramp not far ahead. If I trip and fall out of my yard, I hope that someone is around to call 911./w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Bill
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #25  
<font color=blue>Charlie</font color=blue>
But the PowerTrac could handle the 45deg, right? Well maybe, but not with me on it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
It has been fun guys. Now that I have slap the hornets nest and gotten things stired up,/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I'm outta here. Today is my Monday so it's back to work/w3tcompact/icons/sad.gif at 2pmE. Will check back in around 1am to see where this has gotten. Have a goodun. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

Bill
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #27  
So a 100% grade = 1 foot up for every 1 foot forward

So a 100% grade = a 45 degree hill



Is a 45° grade a 100% grade? what if the slope is > 45°?

I'm asking here...I just figured a perpendicular (90°) was 100%. I've no idea if that is correct though.

The 1:1 ratio Mossroad suggests could well be the correct methodology. If we have any engineers who deal with highway construction, we could probably get the correct answer. Our friends at R&B Manufacturing can probably help us out here...

BTW, I'm a Quality Assurance guy....the math I deal with is mostly trig and statistics. That's the method I used.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #28  
TC25D with 4wd engaged has had no stabilty problems yet on some relatively steep pitches. The terrain I work on are X/C ski trails with minimal side hill grades. One short stretch I approach only from the uphill side. Traction was a problem (ag tires) part of the way up. Didn't want to spin any ruts or flip over.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #29  
% grade is Vertical for 100 ft of horizontal distance. Example: 1% grade is a 1 ft. rize in 100 ft. horizontal distance.

Egon
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #30  
Doug:
As you've seen, we Power Trac types have a considerable amount of brand loyalty. It probably comes from the fact that there are so few of us on the board compared to Kubota, John Deere or New Holland owners. (As far as I know, there's only one active Earth Force owner, but he outnumbers all of us.)
As I noted before, I first got on to Power Trac by searching the net for slope mowers. They are certainly not the only choice.
For hill work, on any machine, the characteristics to look for first are low angle from the CG to the effective tire patch, all wheel drive, and good tires. You also probably need a bit more power than is required to perform the same functions on the flat.
Most compact utility tractors are deliberately designed to be fairly narrow, since getting between obstacles is a more common problem than slopes. CUTs are also fairly high, for ground obstacle clearance. You might consider posing questions to some of the innovators on the board about maximizing a compact tractor for mountain use. For instance if you get a 4wd JD 950, what will happen if you put smaller wheels all around, keeping the same front to back circumference ratio as stock? Then, can you put on duals, to widen the track, lower the cg with liquid fill only to the axle line, add weights low on the frame, etc.? What mods really help, and what will interfere with certain implement use, etc.?
Despite the Power Trac specs, I don't recommend that anyone work on really steep slopes. I haven't measured mine, but they're probably about 20%, which is enough so our conventional 2wd tractors have occasionally gotten away from us, but fortunately not rolled on anyone. As ByuBill has pointed out, even if the grade is theoretically workable, throw in some holes, some leaves, some water, some rocks, some fallen branches and some trees, and you won't be doing much safe tractoring. As long as your main limiter is the pucker factor, you can assemble a good rig for those workable parts of your property for well under new Power Trac prices. (You can also spend more, adding implements, etc., even if you start with a less expensive tractor.)
The next time you go to your place in the mountains, you might want to stop by a couple of dealers in the area, and ask them what machines and what modifications have been successful in the mountains. You can be sure there are already conventional tractors, some old 2wd Worthingtons, some John Deeres, Farmalls, Fords, etc. operating in areas that old men like me won't go near.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #31  
The Degree of slope can be found by taking the rise/run and looking it up in your tangent tables.

Egon
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #32  
Bill:
Although I've seen a video of the Power Trac on what looks like about a 45 degree slope, if you ever see anything working on that kind of grade, you can be quite sure that I will not be the operator. I don't even like a flight of steps that steep.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #33  
Other brands of off-road tractors

I bought a NH TC-40, but it is only suited for the "flat" parts of my property. And when there is a rut or a rock to traverse in the woods, "flat" is pretty scary on a traditional agricultural-type tractor.

I looked at Ventrac, Steiner (my neighbor has one), and Power-trac, but they all had non-standard attachments and didn't seem to have great FELs. I needed a serious machine to move some dirt and pull some big logs around.

What I REALLY wanted was a true off-road tractor, for example: Antonio Carraro TTR 4400 HST (http://www.holdertractor.com/c870h/main-c870h.html), or even a wisconsin engineering W-5000 (<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.wisconsineng.com>http://www.wisconsineng.com</A>), but there are no dealers anywhere close. And in the case of the first two, the cost was in another league than compact tractors from JD/NH/Kubota.

So for now, I'll be patient with the NH and someday move to the flat land!
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #34  
Re: Other brands of off-road tractors

Kent:
Power Trac certainly has non-standard attachments, but pretty capable FEL. My 1845 can dig and move a considerable amount, but, of course, is a wimp compared to Mark Chalkley's EarthForce.
A couple of recommended additions to your dream list would be EF http://www.aebi.com/aktuell/english/index.htm
For enough money, there are some truly wonderful machines available.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Charlie, etal

I'm impressed with so much advice and most impressed that the seasoned operators with the most hours and the best gear are the ones to throw their shoulders to the wheel with my researching. Thanks to ALL...I really appreciate this!!!

I notice both you and MossRoad have and love the PT's and have also noticed you guys and MChakley spent major considerable time and effort on buying decisions. You all clearly have also developed cliques of sorts among TBNers and I sense more than a little lobbying for support...ah, politics....tis in all areas of life, neh?

While I would love to buy new gear, on some level some justification to the costs kicks in....perhaps that is simply the quandry of a newbie...maybe I'll get over it as addiction to this tractoring thing really kicks in. If that is to occur, it can only happen if I stay safe....I am old enough to be over the need for thrills of going up on two wheels and desirous of sticking around long enough to work for and realize our dreams.

The SC dealer for MChakley's brand (White?) is just a 1/2 mile off 26 in Columbia, which we travel to go to our property (the Bearpen), so I'll drop in to see those. I may also take the hike up to VA to check out the PT. I like your suggestions and approach and will most certainly follow up with local dealers and look into the customization issues.

With spring time and building focus, a very real force at work here is the sense of urgency...I've got the itch bigtime...which I am trying to mitigate by subbing out some clearing...but, watching isn't half the fun of doing, even tho there is satisfaction in making progress. There certainly is jusification is getting the heavy lifting out of the way so I can move on to dirt prep, pasture seeding, mowing, etc tho. I'm also going to take a serious look at renting so I can get some needed experience and get some work done in the process. That will either take the heat off or perhaps increase it.

It's easier for you guys that already have toy(s), oops, I mean Tools!...you can just appease the drools with seat time.

All that said, I vow to take enough time to make a good decision...and like motorcycles, not buy too small and end up losing out when trading up. Now, if I could just find the ideal package, on a dual wheel trailer, with elec brakes, within a couple of hours drive, for less than 15K....then the sawmill, and then.....

Where's my hankerchief when I need it to wipe up this persistent drool.....
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #36  
You really know how to torture a guy ;-)

Thanks for the links...and the testament to the Powertrac 1845 lifting power....which seems comparable to the NH TC-40! Must be that huge hydraulic pump that you have.

I wish they still made Jeeps with 3-point hitches and PTOs! I see Unimog has them as well (as well as a FEL...but now we're talking BIG bucks!)

One other tease....<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.cadplans.com/cadtrac.htm>http://www.cadplans.com/cadtrac.htm</A>. If it only had a Power-trac arm and quick attach....
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #37  
<font color=red>You all clearly have also developed cliques of sorts among TBNers and I sense more than a little lobbying for support...</font color=red>
Us? Cliques? Not a chance. In fact, we are completely united in our quest to help you make your selections. So far, by my calculation we can get you a pretty good starter kit - one from each clique, er group - for only a couple of hundred thou. The trailer may be a bit extra.
What you really need to do is tell Mark Chalkley that his EF isn't up to your jobs. Then, when the Brush Brute, Ammbusher, FEL and hoe are finished, you can go out in a garden tractor and chalk your new clear leveled ground into ball fields and maybe a flat track motorcycle course.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#38  
If I could afford that kind of freight, I might just as well host a TBN hoedown (pun intended) and have you all drag your gear from hither and yon for display/demonstration...I'd provide the beer, cabernet, roast pig and vittles and get the jobs done proper!!

Bird could be the Master of Ceremony and Byu the Grand Vizier! Then we could sort out these options with side by side comparisons....we could sell tickets!!! Sounds like a hoot, doesn't it?
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #39  
Has anyone installed 4-equally sized wheels?

Intriguing idea...to replace the existing wheels/tires (large rear, small front) with four equal-sized wheels/tires to increase the stability on slopes.

Would lower the ground clearance, but that would be OK. Actually better in my case.

This would seemingly mess with the mind of the 4-wheel drive trying to keep the wheels somewhat turning the same speed.

And of course mess with my warrantee, I am sure!

So, has anyone actually done this (like with a NH TC40D?)? Where did you buy the rims/tires to fit?

On a side note, I think much of the "pucker factor" experienced by everyone has something to do with the fact that we are sitting so high off the ground such that any lift on an axle gives an exaggerated feeling of tractor instability (I'll call it the "lever-effect"). I hit a 6" rock and I think I am going to roll! Oh boy. I see that my neighbor's old Ford has him sitting on the differential between the two rear wheels. I know being high helps with visibility greatly, so I won't complain too loudly! Since getting the tractor (and learning all about instability on slopes), I have noticed that when I drive my 4x4 truck in places where I would go boldly before (with a full load of logs, no less!), that I now feel really uncomfortable going there. Better safe than sorry, I suppose...or maybe I have just become over-sensitized to that feeling of tipping over?
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #40  
Re: Has anyone installed 4-equally sized wheels?

Kubota (and others) make the tractor you have described. All four tires are the same size, all are the size of the rear tires. They are used for working on the row crops in my area. They are called mudders because that is what they run in


carl
 

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