Best Mountain Tractor?

   / Best Mountain Tractor? #61  
I just answered "what's best" /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif - the Aebi machine, although high-octane fuel for my unsatiated tractor lust - is way out of my league. I may be a doctor, but I'm cheap! (well, maybe frugal sounds better)
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #62  
Maybe start thinking in Radians.

Or Grads!
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #63  
Maybe with all the sideslope a pair of horses or mules would be best. Four foot drive, highly manuverable, pull most compact tractors backwards and would mow the grass unattended. When in the barn they also give the cat a warm sleeping spot and provide garden fertalizer. They will also turn around and nudge you when you stop currying them.

Egon
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#64  
Charlie,

I'm back to giving the PT more serious perusal, partly on the basis of the cost of all the attachments for PTO, partly on the admonitions from Carver and others that 35hp plus would be minimum for what I'm contemplating and primarily on the safety and versatility fronts.

( I am aware that if I go this route, I may be forced to change my signature gif to reflect a lower profile rig)

If you don't mind my asking 1) did you get the trailer package or go "ala carte", 2) did you look at the 30HP "landscaper series and if so, how come you ruled it out, 3) do you know how long PT has been around and if any used equip comes on the mkt.

Thx, Sabi
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#65  
RE: the four legged rigs recommended by Egon:

I hear they take a long time to dig post holes.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #66  
Hi ya
one thing noone has come up with is why not a small dozer with 3 point linkage and pto ,ok i would not use it to mow ya lawn but for running a post hole digger ,slashing bush etc etc it would beat 99% of tractors hands down ..a good hill tractor is the SAME they have braking on all 4 wheels .
catch ya
JD Kid
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#67  
JD,

Byubill did recommend just such a rig and I've tried without luck to contact the guy. The question was raised, but not yet answered, as to their "rollover" rate...word has it they are almost as prone to flipping as a tractor, but has not been verified. This little rig looks pretty sweet http://mutualdevelopment.tripod.com/ Thanks for weighing in with an international perspective, especially from such an experienced viepoint, even tho you only have a small lot ;)
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #68  
Well, this is definitely the most entertaining thread I've never participated in. Until now, anyway. I used to put my .02 cents worth in on all these types of discussions, but 1) there's no reason to, with Charlie around /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif and 2) the mighty EF-500 is no place for a 45-degree slope. About the only thing my machine would do on a hill that steep (at least with me in it) is carve out a flat spot at the bottom of it big enough to play in. I've worked on two jobs with 20-degree hills on them, and don't know when I'll work on anything steeper - it's coming, I just don't know when - and I've come to the conclusion that the EarthForce machines are more stable than they look because of the smaller wheels, I expect, but unless you put that massive backhoe on the uphill side, they'll never be as stable as something without it. Physics is unfortunately known for some rather hard and fast laws that are immutable.

So, have fun on your mountain, but I'm not recommend an EarthForce machine to you, unless you want to remove it. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #69  
Doug:
I made a couple of trips to Tazewell. The first, in Sep 2001, was primarily to look at the 1430, which I was most interested in. The second time, it was still number one on my list, but the 1845 had become possible because they had dropped the price for the base unit by $5,000. Ultimately, I got the 1845 because it is bigger and more powerful and I wanted it, even though it probably isn't as good for lawnmowing as the 30 hp unit.
The trailer package for the 1430 looked really good, but I already have a trailer, and I didn't need the multiple augers, etc. that are geared toward planting bushes. They were willing to swap the things on the trailer a bit, but I didn't pursue that option. (They now build their own trailers. They didn't like the quality of some they bought for resale. I looked at both, and the PT trailer was better, but the one I saw that they had gotten elsewhere was really good.)
My first a la carte selection was a 72" rough cut mower. It is very heavily built and I hope will last forever. That was the primary purpose for my purchase in the first place - pasture mowing, including some steep (to me) slopes. For your purposes, you probably will want a brush hog rather than the rough cut deck. The brush hog is less expensive, and built more for heavy growth than for my pasture grass, although it certainly will mow grass, as well.
I got a large bucket from Power Trac and then a 4n1 from WR Long. I got the 60"tiller, a boom pole, a snow blade with rubber edge. From Lackender Fabrication, I got a hoe, which is a dipper arm that uses the primary Power Trac arms as the boom. I posted some pictures a while back of the bucket and hoe, I think in a thread that MossRoad started on Power Trac mods. If you have trouble finding it, I'll track it down for you. So far, I have proven to myself that the bucket and hoe are capable, but that I don't yet know how to use them properly.
I am reasonably sure that the 1430 would have done everything I need, but the 1845 has more reserve power. Even with the 45 hp, I had to slow a bit last weekend towing an 8' wide chain harrow up fairly steep slopes. I was mowing with the 6' deck, as well, but there isn't much growth yet.
I don't know exactly when Power Trac started. It makes mining vehicles, using the hydraulic setup that was adapted to the current line. The story is that the boss didn't like the garden tractor he had gotten for work around his house, so he had his guys make him one. That machine was sold some years ago, but they got it back and I saw it at their factory.
I think the same guy is still the boss, and his daughter and son in law work there.
I haven't seen any used equipment advertized, but someone mentioned seeing a 425 on e-bay. Power Trac had a couple of used machines at the factory, and one 30 hp machine was for sale by one of the guys working there. He was only asking a couple of thousand dollars below new price, but might have come down if I had started to negotiate. The factory itself will not negotiate downward from the listed prices. They are quite willing, however, to talk about things that might not be on the price list for the one you want, but appear as an option for another machine. If it can be adapted, they are willing to consider it, and a few things may just not have made it to the price list. In addition, they are always working to develop things, and are willing often to talk about them, as well.
On my 1845, the dual bar tread tires were the same price as the turfs I got. Mine is very comfortable on hills, and I think with duals would be rock solid. It makes for a wide machine, however.
Because the hydraulic arms and quick attach are standard, you can get an 1845 with WR Long 4n1 bucket and Lackender hoe for under $20,000. That is fairly cheap, I think for a 45 hp rig with bucket and hoe. I am working to get the 4n1 control a little easier to handle, and the hoe may not be quite as capable as a full backhoe, but both will beat a shovel hands down.
Some of the PT implements may not look cheap compared to 3-point attachments, because the hydraulic motors do cost. All of the Power Trac implements looked to me to be extremely heavily built, however, so I think comparisons should be made to high-end competition.
If Power Trac were to disappear, I do not think I'd have any trouble maintaining the machine. The frame boxes are custom welded steel, but are mostly flat plate fabrications that any good welding shop could repair. (I wouldn't want to be there when someone managed to damage it to the extent it needed that.) The hydraulics: pumps, motors, controls, etc. are all off-the-shelf.
Until I got the Power Trac, I knew nothing of hydraulic equipment; I had small hst machines, and our gear tractors had hydraulic 3 points, loader and power beyond, for which we occasionally got some help from a dealer. I now am finding, however, that there is a whole industrial world out there, with a lot of people who work on hydraulic stuff all the time. Any skid steer mechanic can work on the Power Trac.
Sorry for the long post - hope it helps.
And yes, if you get a PT, you'll have to change the profile on your signature. MossRoad can even make it change implements on the screen.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#71  
Charlie,

Please don't apologize for the long post...you answered my questions and then some, for which I owe you at least a pop. If only I could get the equivilent value exchange for legal advice :)

Things are beginning to take an interesting turn...I finally got ahold of the fellow ByuBill recommended...had a long chat with him about his little dozer that ends up being about three hours from my place in NC....well, I proposed, and he agreed to consider, swapping a Jeep Wrangler (that I don't use anyway cause we've got two other 4X's, plus a mule) that I got in trade when I got rid of a another car I did'nt use much, for his neat little rig. I then called my lovely wife to tee up the (seriously, honey) idea of having BOTH a dozer and a tractor!!!!, (which has been soundly recommended by several veteran users) This way, if I make such decisions, I'll only have to beg forgiveness once. Without pause, she commented that she is now totally convinced I'm over the edge, but she has no idea how much a guy can be influenced by joining TBN. Little does she know I secretly aspire to becoming a "Fleet owner". I also told her we might use the dozer for clearing and to fix the roads and then maybe sell it when we're down to maintenance work. I think she was swayed by that infallable logic.

Now, with MChalkey's candor helping me to effectively rule out the EF, (mighty tho they clearly are), and Carver's too-quick negotiation dis cooling my 'boata fever just a tad, your and MossRoad's quiet lobbying may yet convert me to PT!. If they can work in a horizontal band-sawmill option, I sense a definate maybe deal, and I have yet to even drive one of 'em.

How 'bout them apples?
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor?
  • Thread Starter
#72  
Mark C,

I'm honored that guys like you with depth of tractor buying, operating and fixing experience would help such a greenhorn as me sort out the plusses and minuses of my decisions, so the least I can do is try to help keep it mildly entertaining.

Thanks for your opine, which, considering your "star" status and thoughtful decision making, is obviously worth far more than the .02 you ascribe to it.

All,

I'm off to meet the wife for an after-work bite (sushi, what else would you expect from me), with pics and specs of both the dozer and PT in hand. Wish me luck, I may need it...she may recommend (gasp) counseling!

Tomorrow we head to the Bearpen, so I'll be in the mud planting trees and berries til the end of the weekend (perhaps a break to run down the hill to see a friend who lives on lake Hartwell to fly-fish for stripers...he says it is hot!!)

I'll check in with you all Monday. Be nice to each other and stay safe!!.

Sabi
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #73  
from time to time pt has used and or demo equipment for sale. i have purchased some and have been very happy with it, including the new paint job.

even a possibility to trade up can be discussed with chris at pt. i want a 1850 but can't let go of my pt425 because of some of the work we do, where most of the property is only accessable through 45 inch gates.

we load our larger mowers on our pt 425 forks and move them in sideways, including our acrease wing mowers. once in, we again are at 9-14 feet wide mowing passes.

As an example one property we mowe is 11 acres, with some obstruction, such as beds, trees, bushes and fences in less than 2 hours. the mowing quality is very professional (no visible clippings, nice stripping, or chess board pattern)
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #74  
I've never had a dozer. Should be great fun, and undoubtedly the machine of choice for the initial work. You'll have to start posting to the construction equipment forum re slope capability, but I'm confident the pucker factor is still the limit.
Incidentally, I recommend against a tractor powered sawmill. My brother's Wood Miser has an onboard gasoline engine, powering not only the mill, but the hydraulics that load and position the log. I assume a tractor could power it, but it would tie up the tractor, which would be needed to bring the logs to the mill. Of course, that limit might not apply to a fleet owner, particularly if the dozer has a grapple adapter.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #75  
wasabi - You're welcome, I'm sure. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

You've obviously done a bit of researching, yourself. Otherwise, you wouldn't have known how much of it I, Charlie, MossRoad, and others did before buying what we've got. If you're buying a PowerTrac or an EarthForce machine, you don't belong in a "me too" crowd anywhere, I can tell you that. And you can pretty much count on losing a good chunk of your productivity any time other equipment-conscious folks are about, because you'll spending a lot of time answering questions.

I don't know if you realize that I almost got a PowerTrac 2465 before I settled on the EF-500 - you probably do, but I don't recall your mentioning it. I think I lost some credibility here on TBN (which was hard for me to do, considering how little I had to start with /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif) when I made such a radical switch about 95% of the way into the decision to buy the PT. I sure took some ribbing for, I can tell you that. But, I had what I still think were/are very good reasons. Good enough that even the President and founder of PT suggested I might not be happy with one. It all depends on what you're going to do. I wouldn't recommend a PT2465 for your application, either, but the PT models MossRoad and Charlie are pushing you toward (gently, though, I must say, considering their fervor /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif) would serve you extremely well, I think. Better than anything else at anywhere near the price, I'd venture to add. Ok, so now I've thrown in another .03 worth. I hope it doesn't add up to a wooden nickel.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #76  
wasabi, I don't know if you thought about it but after looking at the link you posted earlier http://mutualdevelopment.tripod.com/ and reading about the bearpen I could only think of two suggestions:
1. rops/fops
2. seatbelt

The heavy equipment operators that we hire every year to maintain our floodway banks and creek channel all recomended a tractor with a rops to me for steep inclines. They have 1 dozer out of 12 in their shop that they only use to flat ground and finish work due to no fops system. Two years ago they would not even traverse a slope that I regularly tackle with my Kubota L3010 during the mowing season. I think you might want to reconsider the dozer type before you buy
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #77  
Wasabi-I was in a similar situation-brush hogging, FEL work, skidding logs in mountainous terrane (Adirondacks of NY state), and trying to keep tractor and FEL purchase under 10k. I ended up with an earlier 80's Yanmar 336D (33 engine hp, biggest US import they had). The front tires have been reversed to allow for a wider stance (see images in Yanmar section). It seems sturdy enough so far, but I've only had it a month or so, and have done some FEL and woods work, but no skidding yet (still too much snow, and I don't have chains yet...).

Good luck on your search, keep an open mind, and read this forum! (best advice I can offer!)

Couchsachraga
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #78  
Roy,

Yep, those calculations are correct. The % slope is calculated by dividing the distance up by the distance forward. When you get over 45 degrees (which is 100% slope), then the % slope is over 100%. As you approach 90 degrees, you're talking inifinite % slope. (because the distance forward is approaching zero, and you know what happens when you divide by zero /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif)
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #79  
Do some research on Unimogs. They're probably the Hummer of tractors. The ag models have 20 spd transmissions, 6 cyl Mercedes diesels providing 70 hp to the front or rear pto, a 3 pt lift capacity of 5,500 lbs., hydraulic remotes front and rear, and a 11 gpm hydraulic system flow capaicty.

Overall the machine is about the size of a mid to large sized compact tractor and weighs about 7,000 lbs. A cab is standard. The 20 spd trans provides speeds ranging from a creeper you can barely see moving to a top of 40 mph. The back deck is also handy for hauling all sorts of tools. Available attachments included a snow plow, FEL, backhoe, etc.

The ag "mogs" also have onboard air compressors that can be used to adjust the pressure in the tires in case you want to reduce the pressure for added traction and then reinflate later.
 
   / Best Mountain Tractor? #80  
Roy,

Yep, those calculations are correct. The % slope is calculated by dividing the distance up by the distance forward. When you get over 45 degrees (which is 100% slope), then the % slope is over 100%.


Yeah Glueguy..
I did some research on this and came to the same conclusions.

I was applying mechanical engineering trig to a civil engineering application...
My error!

Do some research on Unimogs.

Boy, I've seen a few of these. What a vehicle!!! But, what a price!!!
 

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