BIG ROCK PROBLEM????

[EddieWalker]

Looked like fun.

Thanks for the pictures, I enjoyed seeing them.

Eddie

 

[LarryD]

I'm thinkiing he ran around that pond a whole bunch of times for those pics...makes me appreciate them even more.

 

[john_bud]

Stupid question: Why the rock?

jb

 

[Defective]

Next step...putting the rock back EXACTLY how you want it.

What is the lift capacity of that trackhoe with the boom extended? Can you wrap a sling around the water end of that rock & tip it back with the machine?

If so, you could possibly fab up a fork for the machine's blade & pick the rock up from both ends. (of course I might be making silly sounds as I've never played with a trackhoe. But, it does work with a log skidder & lots of chain.)

On edit: Just looked closer at the blade on that machine...probably don't need to do any fabbing...looks like it would cradle the end of the rock nicely.

 

[dirtworksequip]

LarryD, yea I did a little running, but it was such a nice day weather wise for Jan. 50+ degrees I really didn't mind. Plus it gave me some time to think about what to try next.

JohnBud, WHY? Its just something different and unique. The challange of getting it from where it was to where it is now. And then finally getting it set the way I have envisioned it looking. Actually the rock I wanted was 22Lx4Wx1.5H.It was really nice,looked like a Wile E. Coyote rock from the Roadrunner cartoon. I figued I could have cantilevered it out over the pond at least 14 feet, but I wasn't able to get it because another operator buried it in the fill before I could ask the Supt. of the job if I could get it.

Defective, max. lift cap is 8100 lbs, but once you get that far out it reduces it to 1750 lbs. Its just not a big enough machine to just move the rock around. A Cat 312 I'd have no problem doing what I need. As far as cramping the rock between the blade and the bucket.......the blade just doesn't have enough lift power to do that. I tried.

I'm going to try and get it onto some logs today and see how that goes.I guess the biggest factor is that it has to go slightly up hill and fighting gravity is not helping. Also I would have to dig too deep behind it to get it level or down hill. Then when I go to reset it I would have to fight it back up hill.If the logs don't work I may try and find some 5/8ths sheet steel (4x8 feet) If I can get it onto the steel I think it will slide alot easier.

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions.

 

[MarkV]

Just wondering if a good heavy chain around the water end of the rock to the bucket of the excavator would allow you to use the power of the excavator’s hydraulics more effectively? I know my backhoe has more power when not at full reach. This may be way off so I’ll just throw it out as a though. Instead of logs as a roller could you get a hold of some of those concrete cores that are left when they bore holes in concrete? I see them around here that are about a 1’ long by 5 or 6”. My thought was that with some 2x wood under them they would work as bearings and allow the excavator to move the rock in a crabbing type motion easier than logs.

MarkV

 

[firemanpat2910]

ok I have a crazy question. I am good at thinking outside the box If you are having trouble moving the rock, can you re-work the land around it to get the same effect? if mohamad cant go to the mountain take the mountain to mohamad. Sorry just and old saying grandpappy used to say.

 

[whodat90]

Could you chain the excavator to something else to act as an anchor? Used to have to do that when extracting other vehicles with my winch, my jeep was pretty light compared to some of the vehicles I was pulling out.
whodat

 

[dirtworksequip]

MarkV, the chain is a good thought, but I am sort of hesitant to be pulling on something with the hoe when you are pulling directly towards yourself. If the chain were to slip off the rock or break........don't like to think about that.
If you are talking about the concrete test pieces, I could probably get some pretty easy. I'll keep that in mind.

FiremanPat, There isn't really any way to reconfigure the area that the rock will sit on. I sort of designed that part of the pond with the rock in mind. But ya never know. If I can't get it moved and reset correctly that may be what I will have to do.

Whodat, there really isn't anything to tie the machine to. And that really isn't going to do me any good because the machine just does not have the power to move the rock without something under the rock to reduce the drag.

Here is some updated pics of trying to move it.

I can lift the near end about 2 feet off the ground.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/...S POND ROAD BUILDING AND OTHER/P1010930-1.jpg

I cut down a "cherry tree" to make some logs for rollers. "I cannot tell a lie" I carried them to the rock with my JD 870.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/...TES POND ROAD BUILDING AND OTHER/P1010931.jpg

I've got 3 logs under it now. Notice the far track is off the ground.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/...TES POND ROAD BUILDING AND OTHER/P1010932.jpg

GRUNT!!!! Its sittin there like a beached whale now!Thats as far as it will go. The logs won't work anymore the ground is too soft. Even with the blade down it pulls the machine towards the rock and into the ground. I think I'm done til spring unless someone comes up with a solution or I can round up some sheet steel or a couple of steel beams to slide it on.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/...TES POND ROAD BUILDING AND OTHER/P1010933.jpg

It looks pretty harmless sitting there. Like you could do whatever you want to with it. NOT!

If anyone comes up with another idea please post it. I'm open to any suggestions.

To be continued.............

 

[BTDT]

From the pic posted, can you position yourself to reach out over edge of rock and pull it toward you (spin it 90 degrees)? Then reposition yourself and flip it over, should be easier with it in this position. Then when you get it back as far as you want it, push it back around like it was laying.

 

[dirtworksequip]

BTDT, thats a thought. I may be able to place the blade against one corner and pull on the opposite corner with the bucket and spin it that way. I'll have to look at it tomorrow. Rainy here, so probably will not be doing anything,but thinking it over. I tried opening your pdf. but could not get it. I'll try again later.Hopefully I'll be able to look at the file.Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Havoctec]

It seems that you are missing what is painfully obvious. What better reason could you have to justify a bigger toy.

Sorry I couldn't resist. But you can't argue that it would be a very simple solution. Just a little costly

 

[dirtworksequip]

Havoctec, yea I know what ya mean. I was actually looking for a good clean CAT 311CU or 312C when I bought the 308CCR. The bigger machines would have made life alot easier. I looked for over a year to find a good larger clean,low hour machine, just couldn't find one. So I ended up with the 308 which is undersized for the tast at hand.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

I'm chiming in kind of late here but would it work to pump some water under the rock to lubricate it?

With it cantilevered out the weight will really be concentrated under the balance point as I guess you have observed. Are you planning on something like a concrete pier to support it when you put it back?

 

[Egon]

Just think of the "Rock" as house that needs a new basement. Jack it up in place. Pour some concrete piers in the proper places. Lower back down.

 

[dirtworksequip]

If I was moving it downhill some water might help slide it into place. As it is now I don't think it will make that much difference. I'm not sure what to build for it to sit on. Maybe 4 cylinder shaped concrete poured piers 8 inches x 3 feet into original ground. Or the piers with a couple steel beams on top to help with sliding it back in place. I now wish I had set up something for it to set on when I originally slid it into place because it was sitting just where I wanted it. As far as chimming in too late. Its not, because the rock isn't where it needs to go yet. So i'm open to any and all suggestions. Thanks for the imput.

 

[dirtworksequip]

Egon, any suggestions on what to place under the jacks to keep them from going into the ground?

 

[dirtworksequip]

Egon, a light just came on! If I could get two steel beams under it width wise with a jack on each end it may just be able to get it lifted enough to do something with it.If I can keep the jacks from disappearing into the ground. Thats alot of jacking with 4-20 ton jacks though. If I can get the sheet steel under it,wet it down, I think the 308 might just be able to slide it. I will get it done one way or another. I appreciate everyones ideas as to how to go about moving it.

 

[Egon]

Dig holes at two points on either side of the rock. Put a bottle jack in each hole on some wood, concrete pads etc. ?? , jack up the one side a little and get some cribbing under the rock, then move to the other side and repeat. Work back and forth on the two sides till the rock is high enough for you to work with.

I would advise not to get under the rock unless there are proper beams underneath supporting it.

 

[charlz]

The ground looks pretty soft. I would not underestimate the weight of the rock _over time_ Any little pilings you put in there will slowly be driven into the ground by the continuous weight of the rock.

I would think you would need some support forward (water side) of the tipping point otherwise it will eventually settle and slide down into the pond. I would think about pilings and maybe some type of vertical rock face below it to cover up the pilings. An abutment similar to those used on bridges with the tipping point right on or right behind it might do the trick. Then you could conceal the concrete with rubble. If you really wanted it to stick out past the tipping point you would need to counterweight the backend.

Lots of chains and then trying to pull it with the track hoe using the drive and the hoe to pull is probably the most straightforward. Not sure how that would work in the soft ground (and I have never used a trackhoe).

Spinning it sideways and then walking it back one end at a time would work as long as the end you are not working with does not move toward the water. Perhaps you could chain that end to your skidsteer just to help convince it to not move. The first few steps would be critical, once you get it away from the edge it would matter as much. Even making more of a swale then a trench behind it might help. Once you get it away from the water you have a lot better chance of pushing it around and then re-working the ground.


Charles