Bobcat help..25hp or 27? for ct225

[unclesalty]

Hello all, I thought I'd ask for some help here since the bobcat and kioti are built at the same factory. I bought my ct225 last month. I was reading the manual and it states I have the td1300xlbc engine rated at 25hp/18.6kw.
Does the 27hp model use the same engine? The area bobcat rep said (to my sales guy) the 25hp and the 27 hp use the exact same engine its just that the stats were changed. I was told during the purchase I was getting a 27hp tractor and the brochure I was given says 27 hp. Im going to be pulling a 6' bush hog and a 5 1/2' flail. I need all the pto hp I can get. the 25hp tractor is rated at 17hp at the pto. The 27hp tractor has 19 and change at the pto. i guess what I need to know is are the engines the same? Are there any identifiers to tell the difference. I'm awaiting a call from my sales guy, He's getting me the bobcat area reps contact info.
Thanks Brian

 

[MichiganIron]

The CK25 (25hp) and CK27 (28hp) use different engines. Here are some of the specs:

CK25 (discontinued after 2007)
Engine Model - TD1300LXA/LXE
Gross Engine hp - 25
Displacement - 79.3 cu. in.
PTO Horsepower - 19/18

CK27 (2008 and later)
Engine Model - 3A139LWM/LWH
Gross Engine hp - 28
Displacement - 85.0 cu. in.
PTO Horsepower - 21.7/20.5

The CK25 was discontinued by Daedong after 2007 and re-designed to the CK27 to meet the new EPA and CARB emissions standards.

The engine model number will be on a tag on the top of the valve cover.

Hope this helps.

 

[NewToy]

It will be asking alot from either engine to turn a 6' bush hog. A 5' is about the limit and a 4' might be the best fit, especially if you encounter some heavy stuff.

John

 

[unhappykioti]

According to the Bobcat website you have a 27hp 19.5 pto hp, site also says the CT225 is a compatible carrier for their 70" bush hog.

 

[unclesalty]

The CK25 (25hp) and CK27 (28hp) use different engines. Here are some of the specs:

CK25 (discontinued after 2007)
Engine Model - TD1300LXA/LXE
Gross Engine hp - 25
Displacement - 79.3 cu. in.
PTO Horsepower - 19/18

CK27 (2008 and later)
Engine Model - 3A139LWM/LWH
Gross Engine hp - 28
Displacement - 85.0 cu. in.
PTO Horsepower - 21.7/20.5

The CK25 was discontinued by Daedong after 2007 and re-designed to the CK27 to meet the new EPA and CARB emissions standards.

The engine model number will be on a tag on the top of the valve cover.

Hope this helps.

Thanks thats the data I need, My dealer and the area rep are saying there never was a 25hp version! My engine is the td1300lxbc version and was purchased at the end of june

 

[Sprocket]

Unclesalty, I posted some info for you in the other thread.
Valve cover tag CT225 purchased MAY 09
engine Family 8dcLL01.4D80
Displacement 1.393 L
This engine meet EPA California 2008 Standards bla bla bla

Hope this helps

 

[MichiganIron]

The td1300 is the 25 hp engine. The letters after the engine model designate the application, in your case - Bobcat.

For rough cut mowers, a good rule of thumb to follow is 4-5 pto horsepower/ foot of cutting width, depending on conditions. You would comfortably run a 5' rough cutter for most applications.

Bobcat had some "aged" inventory they sold this year at some pretty aggresive pricing. The tractor serial number would also indicate the year of production.

 

[unclesalty]

Thanks for the help, Both my dealer and the area rep for bobcat were unaware of any engine change. I gave the rep all this info and he said he would be in touch. I'm asking for a new tractor.... When I bought the tractor I was told it was 27hp, my paperwork came with the spec brochure that said it was 27 hp and I bought a bush hog based on the tractors rated pto (at 27hp). Both my dealer and rep thought it was 27hp. I'm going to check my serial tonight. Im closing in on 50 hrs so I would like to get this resolved asap, the biggest problem is tractor availability. Bobcat is 2-3 weeks behind and the loaders are 4-6 weeks out.

 

[KiotiDave]

OH DARN......
Sounds like trouble in Bobcat paradise??????
I have heard that their distribution center is all but empty of compact tractors and that they accomplished what they set out to do. Liquidate inventory.
The big question is WHY?
KiotiDave

 

[Patches]

Thanks for the help, Both my dealer and the area rep for bobcat were unaware of any engine change. I gave the rep all this info and he said he would be in touch. I'm asking for a new tractor.... When I bought the tractor I was told it was 27hp, my paperwork came with the spec brochure that said it was 27 hp and I bought a bush hog based on the tractors rated pto (at 27hp). Both my dealer and rep thought it was 27hp. I'm going to check my serial tonight. Im closing in on 50 hrs so I would like to get this resolved asap, the biggest problem is tractor availability. Bobcat is 2-3 weeks behind and the loaders are 4-6 weeks out.

Seems like Daedong has a problem with their ditributors mis-advertising their tractors HP.I purchased my (Kioti) 3054xs TLB as a 30HP tractor. The dealer, broucher and web site all had this tractor listed as a 30HP unit. I bought and (paid for) a 30HP tractor, but when I got around to checking,(and converting) the data plate 20.9KW to American HP, it equals 28. This tractor does have the advertised TD1400 B-1, but it just isn't 30HP. I contacted Kioti customer service(?) and subsequently recieved a letter stating the standard caveat; "The manufacturer reserves the right to change specifications without notice". Well, to my mind, you can't change what never was I bought(and paid for) an advertised 30HP tractor and got a 28

 

[Gittyup]

Keep in mind that HP ratings are under specific conditions. Change those conditions and thet rating can change. So, yes a "28 HP" tractor can put out 30 HP, under the right conditions, and visa versa. One has to understand this, and then know that the numbers published may not always jive perfectly. The motor manufacturer might test and then label at one HP rating, while at the tractor level it is tested and rated at a different HP. If you buy a 27 HP tractor and then find literature that states it's 25, well, it just might be true.... under certain conditions. Doesn't mean that under other conditions that you won't get 27 HP. Nonetheless, the diffence should be no more than a couple of HP.

That said, I don't think that is really the case with the Kioti CK25 and CK27. These truely are slightly different by design. Kioti has made the distinction quite clear. What isn't so clear is how BobCat is handling these tractors. I was actually surprised that they had any of the 25HP models, given when they came to start selling them. Does BobCat offer a CT227 in addition to the CT225?

 

[JayC]

Does BobCat offer a CT227 in addition to the CT225?

Nope. Bobcat labels the 27hp model under the CT225. I've been thinking for a while now that they should have relabeled it the CT227. Having both models under the same label is proving to be quite a mess.

 

[Patches]

I'm well aware of the multiple ratings for a given engine;327 Chevrolet, anywhere from 225HP to 375HP from the manufacturer in stock form and far beyond with aftermarket parts. My concern was they didn't answer the question presented. If they had said, "we turned up the pump and made other changes to the TD1400B-1 to account for the discrepency", I'd have been satisfied. They chose to go with an easy out. To make matters even more suspect, I was at my dealers a couple months later, picked up a broucher for the 3054, and low and behold; it's rated at 28HP. Co-incidence; I don't think so. Maybe I'm just a suspicious old yankee, but it appears to me this never was a 30HP engine, in any configuration, and they got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar

 

[unclesalty]

Well, I gave the engine info to Both my dealer and area rep. The rep came back and said yup, 2 different engines, 2 different hp ratings. I'm waiting to see what kind of deal corporate is gonna make me. I figured they're charging about a thousand a hp. My 225 was 10,000, the 230 is selling for around 12,000 (28 vs 30). So 2,000 cash back and I keep my tractor or a new 225 if they can find one, I'd even settle for a 230 with its approx 30 hp.

 

[unclesalty]

Latest update. Bobcat of tampa has told me through my salsman that they are unwilling to replace my tractor. "I should be happy I got a great tractor at a great deal!" At 10,000 even It was an average deal I think. So I talking to the store manager today and his boss right after that.
Are any dealers reading this? Am I being unrealistic? I thought my tractor was 27 hp, The salesman said it was 27. It is a 25hp leftover. Should I just let it go?

 

[Oleozz]

I would forget about it, 2 hp really means nothing except you didn't get what you thought you were getting.

 

[Mousefield]

I think it is petty sad that the sales person didn稚 know that the tractor was only 25 horse and not 27 or else he just lied to make the sale. I would pursue this matter even though you may not gain anything. It's just not right and someone should be held accountable.
The fact is you did not get what they told you and what you paid for.
If you have a better business bureau in your area they may be someone to contact who would go to bat for you. The dealer should do something for you, maybe a free 50 hour service or ?

 

[unclesalty]

I think it is petty sad that the sales person didn稚 know that the tractor was only 25 horse and not 27 or else he just lied to make the sale. I would pursue this matter even though you may not gain anything. It's just not right and someone should be held accountable.
The fact is you did not get what they told you and what you paid for.
If you have a better business bureau in your area they may be someone to contact who would go to bat for you. The dealer should do something for you, maybe a free 50 hour service or ?

Yes the fight is turning nasty, The general manager will not answer my calls or reply to emails. I will attempt to contact his boss then Ill be calling the better business bureau and the consumer affairs office. Then I'll be calling the local tv stations consumer laywer. If that all fails I will get an atty involved. Another big downside to all this is I will always be worried about getting my tractor serviced where I purchased it....

 

[unclesalty]

breaking news update....
Thanks to all for the info and pictures of the two engines.
I finally talked to the Bobcat district rep 1 week ago and told him my side of the story. It apparently was a little different than what the franchise owner told him. It was a good conversation, He was polite and seemed to want my facts. He said he would talk to the dealer and let me know what they decided. I got the call late yesterday, They found a bobcat in oklahoma, and are shipping it to florida for delivery at the end of the week! The timing is good, my tractor was scheduled for a shop visit, its burning more than 1 gal/hr at avg rpm 1500-2000. some bush hogging but mostly loader work. the left side of the loader is sooted up bad. Its time for the 50 hr service as well and now its creeping at a stop. Even though stored under cover and waxed its rusting in several spots.
Kudos to Bobcat for stepping up to the plate. I will be a little nervous about future warranty issues with my dealer though...