Bought a Kioti CK3510SE TLB, Package w/ Trailer & Attachments

[Midniteoyl]

Would really be going over the whole wiring harness looking for pulled/frayed wires seeing as this happened right after you were in the woods all day.

 

[deezler]

^ thanks, yeah nothing visible as for wiring damage. Honestly I hadn't looked over the underside of this tractor much, but Kioti did a good job keeping the wiring away from damage prone areas. The only real exposed bundle is right behind the 3rd function valve; looked fine.

Anywhoo, she started up perfectly yesterday, without the CEL illuminated (as it had also been doing prior). But the hour meter LCD briefly read "error 002", and then also "error 006". I can't seem to figure out exactly what this means from the workshop manual (downloaded from the Kioti korean ftp site). Getting the real CEL codes from a proper scan tool is obviously the correct diagnostic procedure.

So I pulled her outside, warmed up for 5 minutes, still no CEL so I started a regen. She rev'ed right up, and started doing its thing. But after 5 minutes, I heard a sharp change in tone (fuel injection timing/pattern) and it rev'd back down to idle and the CEL was now on. Whatever is causing my CEL is one of the codes that interrupts or prevents a regen, apparently.

Guess I am waiting until Monday for my new scan tool to arrive, and hope it can pull codes for me. Might still do a little light work this weekend since she seems to be running just fine, and I have tasks to do, but I'm quite paranoid about the CEL. Ugh. Tried to buy a fancy new modern tractor, and it's already fighting me after just a dozen hours of productive work (shes at 116 hours now).

 

[deezler]

Ok, the "error codes" in the dash display are from the owners manual, not the workshop manual:

NO. DISPLAY DESCRIPTION
1 ERR-001 No Signal at TACHO Input
2 ERR-002 No Signal at Water Temp
3 ERR-006 No Signal at GLOW LAMP Input
4 ERR-007 No Signal at PTO CRUISE LAMP
5 ERR-008 No Signal at Water IN FUEL Input
6 ERR-009 No Signal at HOUR Input

WTF. No signal at water temp, no signal at glow lamp? That doesn't make any sense. Edit: After the first time the CELs came on, I did have the water temp gauge dropping out occasionally. Guess it's time to go over the entire wire harness.

I'm beginning to fear I might have an ECU issue, not a simple mechanical issue. I'm well within warranty, especially for emissions related issues, but forcing a local dealer (who I didn't buy it from) to accommodate me sounds rather miserable and time consuming.

 

[Stan B]

Ok, the "error codes" in the dash display are from the owners manual, not the workshop manual:

NO. DISPLAY DESCRIPTION
1 ERR-001 No Signal at TACHO Input
2 ERR-002 No Signal at Water Temp
3 ERR-006 No Signal at GLOW LAMP Input
4 ERR-007 No Signal at PTO CRUISE LAMP
5 ERR-008 No Signal at Water IN FUEL Input
6 ERR-009 No Signal at HOUR Input

WTF. No signal at water temp, no signal at glow lamp? That doesn't make any sense. Edit: After the first time the CELs came on, I did have the water temp gauge dropping out occasionally. Guess it's time to go over the entire wire harness.

I'm beginning to fear I might have an ECU issue, not a simple mechanical issue. I'm well within warranty, especially for emissions related issues, but forcing a local dealer (who I didn't buy it from) to accommodate me sounds rather miserable and time consuming.

I think those error codes are being generated by the cluster. In other words, it's not trying to show you what codes the ECU is throwing, but rather telling you that the instrument cluster isn't receiving those signals. Maybe pop the cluster out and reseat the connections, and check for mice nests while you're in there.

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a few hours?
Maybe also try disconnecting and reconnecting the ECU.

 

[deezler]

Thanks Stan, I think you are right, those are just cluster errors, which can only really amount to not receiving all the signals it needs.

I did have the battery off for 36 hours or so. I'm going to do it again tonight and unplug the ECU and cluster to inspect the harness and connections. Guess the heavy hood has to come off again, because its near impossible to get underneath it to access the top of the engine, etc.

 

[Stan B]

Also, I'm guessing the tractor sat for a while before you bought it? I wonder if maybe there's a fuel quality or fuel filter issue. Tier IV's seem to be pretty picky about clean fuel and filters.

@MichiganIron : Is there any way for owners to read the codes on these tractors? Like a third-party scanner that works enough for basic troubleshooting?

 

[MichiganIron]

There are a couple different things going on here.

If the tractor is a Tier IV / Stage 4 tractor (prior to 2020), the error codes in the dash are Instrument Cluster created codes, and have nothing to do with the ECU. Check Engine faults are created by the ECU, not the dash cluster. ECU Error codes can only be read in Stage 4 Tractors with the Diagnostic Program.

If the tractor is a Tier IV / Stage 5 tractor (2020 and after), the Dash Cluster does indicate ECU Faults. This was added by KIOTI to help customers and dealers communicate error codes before needing the Diagnostic Program to source the issue.

So..if the tractor is a Stage 4 tractor, a dealer needs to read the ECU Error codes to determine the source of the CEL on the dash.

Hope this helps....

 

[deezler]

Thanks. It is a 2019 ck3510se.

The cluster error codes have nothing to do with the ECU... except.... they only happened right after I got CELs. I presume the cluster signals come from the ECU, and not directly from any sensors themselves. So I have some sort of harness/ECU gremlin going on here.

My question, to repeat Stan's, is do you know of any aftermarket OBD2 scanner that can pull codes successfully from the Kioti Delphi ECU? Having to trailer it up to the dealer won't be the end of the world, but it sure is inconvenient. Pretty f&*(ng stupid to block customers from having any way to read codes at home, and make them harass their dealers instead.

 

[MichiganIron]

Just to re-iterate the error codes may have appeared after the CEL indication, but they are not accurate indications of what the ECU is seeing. Best to pretend they are not there in Stage 4 tractors...they can be misleading.

There are not aftermarket scanners that will read the KIOTI ECU Errors that we are aware of.

 

[deezler]

Yeah I plan to ignore those cluster errors, since they don't really mean anything other than temporary cluster signal issues. Hopefully a nothing-burger.

Ok well my J-1939/J-1708 Autel scanner is arriving on Monday, I will report back the CEL codes.

The Cen-tech scanner from harbor freight that I tried could see the ECU, knew there were 3 codes, even saw some freeze-frame data, knew the engine hour meter reading, but would cause the engine to stall when I hit the "scan codes" function - "not supported". So close.

Even if my autel scanner works, if any parts or further diagnosis is needed, it obviously still has to go to the dealer. I just can't stand being in the dark on basic engine diagnosis.