Brick vs Stacked Stone

[bmac]

I've got a couple of questions that I didn't want to get lost in my home construction thread. So I thought I'd just start a new topic for this.

My builder told me the other day that we need to start looking at brick colors for our house pretty soon. Our house was designed to have a farm house look and will have Hardiplank siding on the main structure. However, the exposed portion of the daylight basement is scheduled to be veneered in brick. From the front of the house, there will be about 2 feet of exposed brick. The property slopes from front to back such that on the back of the house, the entire 10 ft height will be exposed.

The builder suggested that we begin by looking at other homes to see what we like. My wife and I are at odds on the colors of brick we have seen. One thing we both like, however, is the homes that have stacked stone.

So, with that bit of background, here are a couple of questions. Does anyone know an approximate cost difference between brick and stacked stone (maybe expressed in terms of a percentage)? I'm thinking real stone will be a budget breaker, so what about the synthetic stone? Has anyone used the synthethic products as an exterior veneer? Do they look close enough to the real thing to be attractive? How do they hold up over time? Cost of synthetic vs brick? Finally, I've attached an image of the rear elevation of the house plan. The shaded area is the area to be veneered. I would like opinions on the esthetics of brick vs a stacked stone for such a large area as we will have on the back of the house. My wife is concerned that it may not look good in this application.

Thanks for any and all replies. If anyone has photos of their property where stacked stone (real or synthetic) has been used in a similar application, we would love to see it .

 

[Junkman]

I have two friends that have used the synthetic stone... one used it on his home almost 20 years ago and it still looks great. You cannot tell the difference between it and the real thing unless you tap on it. My other friend is installing it on his new home presently. His only negative comment was that the mastic that he is using to install it, if it comes in contact with the stone is hard to remove. He referred to the mastic as cement, but I don't know if it is a true cement or a mastic. He did say that it is a tedious job to get it to look natural when you are working on scaffolding and are up close. His wife stays on the ground shouting orders up to him.... Just like most wives do...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[EddieWalker]

I have a littel experience with both.

The last house I built, I paid .27 cents per brick in bulk. Not sure about a brick vineer, but I'd assume it's cheaper then buying whole bricks. The stacked rock is going be $7 to $10 a sq ft. If you go for a flat rock, or fieldstone type of rock that covers more surface area, your price per foot drops considerably.

Both attach with Type N mortor, so that's not much of a difference, either way.

Shop around. Prices vary with different brands and availablity. The stone I'm currently using is very popular, and dificult to come get, which means my price went from $7 a sq ft to $9, and I still have to search all over to find it.

You can also mix the brick with stone. Either do brick columns with rock fill, or do a brick columns and bottom portion with a rock fill. You get the rock look without as much expense.

It's also fairly easy to install yourself. You might save the difference in price by putting your own sweat into it. If that's an option.

Eddie

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> Not sure about a brick vineer,... </font>

Eddie, sorry I wasn't clear on this. I'm talking about using real, full-sized brick. For the stone, I am referring to flat field stone. 1-2 inches thick, broken into pieces 4-5 inches deep and varying in length, and stacked such that 2-3 pieces would yield the height of 1 brick. I'm not sure if my description makes sense.

I wish I had to time to do it myself as I does look like it would be a fun project.

 

[bmac]

Junkman,

Thanks. That is encouraging. I'm sure the material cost has to be less than real stone and the labor is probably a fraction of installing real stone. I'll look into this.

 

[Junkman]

I now understand the type of stone that you are thinking of. Yes, that type of stone facing will be labor intensive and the cost of the stone also will be quite expensive since you will need a lot of it. What I was referring to was to use the "cultured stone" on its flat side being attached to the side of the house giving it a look of large stones making up the wall. Had I though of it, I could have snapped a picture of my friends home this afternoon while I was there. These cultured stones are about 8" x 10" approximately and have irregular edges and corners to make them look like flat field stone. They also have different textures to them and colors, so you do get a random pattern. This is the least expensive way to get the stone look at a price that you can afford to live with. Brick facing is brick that are thinner in depth and are glued and stacked to look like the real bricks, but you just don't have as much material. That would be my second choice based on expense. If money is no object, then go for the flat stacked fieldstone. It also comes down to a personal choice of what you like and how well it will fit into the design of the home.
Here is a website that shows stone web page

 

[EddieWalker]

Each method has a different aproach. If your putting up brick, then you had to have poured a footing to support it. The brick is then laid with a space between it and the wall.

Again, bricks vary on cost, but should be under $2 a sq ft.

The rock is attached to the wall. Is your wall built for this, or do you need to add lathe? Might be a consideration.

Sonds like you are in a win-win situation. Either way you go, it will look nice.

Eddie

 

[bmac]

<font color="blue"> If your putting up brick, then you had to have poured a footing to support it. </font>

The attached photo shows the brick ledge that was built into the forms when the walls were poured.

If we used stone, I assume the lathe would have to be added.

 

[bmac]

Junkman,
I was afraid I didn't communicate this well. Here's a pic of kind of what I was thinking about. BTW, this is a cultured stone product but I'm not sure if it is for exterior applications.

 

[bmac]

Here's another cultured stone product that I think looks nice.

 

[Junkman]

The second one pictured is what my friends have. The first one I have not seen before. What I have seen is flat fieldstone that has been shaped into the size of a brick and then set into concrete in the horizontal plane. Two or three stacked with mortar between them would be approximately the hight of a brick. They go in long horizontal rows till they get to the roof eaves. I have seen them on many homes in Southern MA and they are impressive, but also very expensive. The lip on your foundation will support almost any choice that you make.....

 

[boustany]

Heres a sort of third option.
When I wanted to start the brickwork on my house when I discovered that bricks are 6 months+ backlog around Toronto. My bricklayer suggested a product call Soltice Stone (spelling?) which is a brick material made of concrete. The 'bricks' are split so they look like stone blocks (really they do!). Because they are made of concrete they don't fall apart like bricks do.

However, they cost about 50% more /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif , even though delivery was 2 days after order.

However, because the average stone/brick is much bigger than a real brick, the labor cost was much lower. So the net cost to me for a premium product and a premium look was more or less the same as 'plain old brick'. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

You might ask some brick layers about the total costs ...

 

[Junkman]

Where is the picture???????? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[boustany]

Its a bit of a mess - its still a work in process.

I paid for the excavation, concrete work, and brickwork.

Everything else I did myself (usually alone)

From the front

 

[boustany]

From the back
Scaffolds are there in prep for the deck I'm gonna start later this summer. (an excuse to get a drill ..)

 

[boustany]

Finally a closeup of the 'brickwork'

I've been taking it easy lately - the 'boss' ordered me to build a barn but I cheated and subbed out the construction. I did all the wiring, insulation, and walls myself, though.

Before I get to the deck I'm gonna try finish the master bathroom (talk about money ... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif).

I'm amazed my wife put up with this. I still have about 1,500 sq feet unfinished flooring and most of the paint is still just primer.

Well it keeps me off the street.

Hey - made 'Platinum!' /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[dmccarty]

bmac,

In the areas I have lived and the books I have read brick veneer is made from real, fullsized brick. Now brick comes in different sizes so that is a consideration as well. There is a brick product that is a half inch to an inch thick that maybe is causing confusion?

Modern construction has bricks that are not a structural part of the house. The bricks should be connected to the the house with metal ties that are fastened to the house and to the brick in the mortor joint. There should be an air cap between the house and the backside of the brick.

Brick is not waterproof. Brick will wick water like a sponge. That water has to go somewhere. Thus the air gap between the house and the brick. There should be holes at the bottom of the brick shelf to allow that water to drain away. If brick is touching the structure of the house I don't see how there will not be rot and mildew problems.....

I THINK code in NC is for the drain holes to be every six or eight feet I can't remember which. I specified drain holes every three to four feet.

I would be very concerned with real rock or a man made rock that was directly attached to the house such that there was no way for the water to drain away. This may not be a big concern if the "rock" is attached to a poured or CBU foundation. BUT, I would still ask questions. The latest Journal of Light Construction just had an article about water infiltration through CBU/stucco wall in Florida during last years storms. The idea of having a stone veneer physically connected to walls that where part of living space would make me nervous.

later,
Dan

 

[8NTX]

Here's a link to some good looking manufactured stone:

http://www.culturedstone.com/products/blends.asp


Steve

 

[bmac]

Dan,

Thats good information. Thanks.

8NTX - appreciate the link.