Building a fence - Backhoe or Auger?

[bindian]

I answered in my other post that way because you said you wanted to put crete around the posts. I would not use crete and would NOT, NOT use crushed rock. The crushed rock will give water a place ti stand around the post causing rot. Dill the hole with a 9" auger 2' deep and put a small amount of dirt around the post and pack it down with what you have, digging iron, pipe with end cap, or even a small tree about 3' across at the bottom. repeat the process until hole is full. The old timers say you did not do it right if you did not have to get extra dirt from somewhere to finish the hole. It is work but the posts will not move. You can also use the clamshell diggers and arm power, it is only around 50 posts and you wont have to go to the gym.

I have tried that here and a year later......in the summer dry season with the clay...........I have loose posts.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Ed of all trades]

I have tried that here and a year later......in the summer dry season with the clay...........I have loose posts.
hugs, Brandi

I guess it has to do with the soil and climate. I have put in many miles of fence on the farm that way and the only time we had a problem was in pure sand by the river. In a flood the posts would float out of the ground. Everywhere else they stayed tight. Va red clay must be better at holding posts than Texas clay.

 

[Mace Canute]

Hydraulic auger on your backhoe. All you have to do is cut your bucket curl line and add fittings and QDs. Run the auger with the bucket's curl and dump lever. View attachment 423235
hugs, Brandi

You definitely have the "Cadillac" set up for post holes. The only thing that might be better is a radial arm digger with a boom tip mounted winch like we used on the crew when I was building power lines.

The power company actually just set some poles up down the street from me. They did miles worth of replacing, dozens of poles, at least. I don't know if they were upgrading or replacing due to problems, but I'll walk over and see if I can figure out how they did it.

I would think with crushed rock, eventually dirt will work its way into the cracks anyway, so what's the difference between that and dirt, except it fills the hole and compacts itself, as you say. I don't see how, if needed, adding a concrete topper on top of the rock would be a problem. Many people say use gravel underneath the post so that it can drain.

I will be using pressure treated posts, by the way. That was the plan all along.

As for the auger on the end of the BH, would it be preferable? Probably, but it's also a lot more work than just throwing on a 3 point auger, and again, I'm in the unique position (for my area anyway) that my land is flat.

Dirt will definitely work it's way into the voids. If you pile up the dirt dug out of the hole around the post much of it will be washed into those voids with each rainfall. When I was on the construction crew we used to use a hydraulic tamper (as they still do) to tamp both dirt and then the crushed rock. It settled the rock and avoided a void at the top as without it the slight rocking of the pole in the wind would wiggle and jiggle the rock and it would work itself into a slightly smaller volume but since the holes were 6 feet deep plus it's unlikely you'd notice the "shrinkage" on a shallower hole...but it certainly wouldn't hurt to tamp other than the time and effort required to do it. Personally I would tamp the crushed rock.

 

[analog]

Well there we have it, from Bubbs himself, the smartest guy in the park!

 

[bindian]

I guess it has to do with the soil and climate. I have put in many miles of fence on the farm that way and the only time we had a problem was in pure sand by the river. In a flood the posts would float out of the ground. Everywhere else they stayed tight. Va red clay must be better at holding posts than Texas clay.

Ed,
The clay holds good. But all clay dries up and shrinks in a draught. At that time, all my posts in concrete held tight.
hugs, Brandi

 

[analog]

Well, I looked at the poles down the road from me, and from what I can tell they're just packed in with dirt.

 

[Fallon]

When I pulled my old posts the ones in dirt came out on average as hard as the ones in cement. Cement was a pain to chip off or dig out if the post came but cement didn't.

The new fence went in with a PHD & heavily tamped dirt. Its holding up great & the next fence will get the same dirt & tamp.

 

[newbury]

I don't understand how crushed rock would be any different than dirt, except that the particle size is bigger. I can see how one would say that water could fill into a concrete hole and stay until evaporated. It seems like everyone has had some success doing all four things - concrete, rock, sand and soil. I like the idea of rock, as it is easier and less expensive (although not as inexpensive as soil!), but I'm going to read a few books and see what they have to say before making the final decision. The important thing at the moment is auger vs. hoe, and I think I have the answer to that... everyone seems to agree that an auger is the way to go, even with the one poster saying I should ditch the hoe bucket and replace it with an auger!

Remember - soil or dirt is a very general term and then there is also the degree of packing. I've places with a sandy loam that wouldn't hold a post no matter how much I packed and other places with marine clay that if it's dry it's almost impossible to get the PHD into it.

<snip>
I'm with Brandi and one other poster about using an auger on the end of a BH, mini-ex or on a skid steer. The control you have is SO much superior compared to using a PHD on 3pt hitch that its worth every penny of the rental fees. Once you've tried it, you'll never use one on the back of a tractor again.

If you can afford it. In my area a "Tow Behind Post Hole Digger Auger", which is about the cheapest way to go is still about $150/day or $300/week. My PHD from AgriSupply w/ two augers cost about $600 brand new. And any time I need a hole it's there. But then my job is not to make post holes. If analog is not going to want to drill a hole again then renting makes sense.

Well, I looked at the poles down the road from me, and from what I can tell they're just packed in with dirt.

That should do it, and if you find them leaning or sagging you could go in and reset them in concrete.

 

[POC]

Putting up my first fence presently. I'm drilling my holes with an auger. Using fresh cut cedar posts. Setting the post in the ground, drop in a little dirt, using a 2" diameter metal pipe with some sand in it to tamp around the post and set the dirt. Add a little more dirt, tamp again. More dirt, continue tamping. Mounding up the leftover dirt around the base of the post to help water run away from the post. Around here we have mild red clay.

 

[94BULLITT]

The best way would be to drive the posts. Putting posts in concrete does not help anything.