Busy Wife This Weekend

[mike69440]

Interesting.

"I've never worked with pre-made panels, but have heard they are faster to install and offer supperior insulation. I didn't realize that the sheething didn't wrap around the corners. Do you do anything extra for this? or is it code as it is?"

Panels are routed for a 2 x 6 walls and 2 x 10 roof. Under load bearing areas it can be double triple or Quad 2 x 6
You still use a lot of lumber with this stuff.

"What is your R value for your walls?"

The Foam itself is 26 walls, 38 ceiling. Supposedly better than conventional as everything is foam sealed and near airtight.

"What type of windows will you use so that you don't lose that R value?"

I'm using triple pane kypton filled u=.2 or better vs. normal energy star on .31. PPG system made in Germany imported and stuck in these windows below with foam filled casing.

Even with all that, that is only R= 5, so you loose out of windows no matter what. you pay for the view.

Tribute Windows - Vinyl Windows by Harvey


With the price of lumber and labor being so low with the economy crashing, for what these clowns charge, if I did it again I'd Stick build. I'll be long gone before I get the energy payback.

Thanks,
Eddie

Eddie see above

mike

 

[EddieWalker]

Mike,

The last sentance was what I was really curious about. I know you spent a fair penny for those walls and that supper energy efficency, but I always wonder if there is a payback in that expence. The R5 windows cost a fortune too, and are only slightly better then a standard double paned window. I know a guy who got 4 paned windows, which were better on R value, but the main reason was for sound quality living near the SFO Int. Aiport. The Airport paid for them.

I think the best way to go is to stick build and then spray the foam insulation into the cavities after the mechanical work is done. From what I've seen, this really makes for an efficient home with minimal expense. Of course, the windows are always going to be the limiting factor on how much energy you can save.

One study said that if you buy replacement windows for a house and have them installed, it's close to 30 years to pay back the price of the windows in what you save on energy. Nobody realizes that double paned windows are in the R3 range. Going from single pane to double paned helps, but it's not a huge difference. I've added insulation to attics that get 30 percent savings instantly on their utility bills, but nobody has ever noticed a savings on their bills from new windows or doors.

Either way, it's looking to be a spectacular home!!!!!

Eddie

 

[HoustonBrama]

I gotta disagree with you on the single pane investment return Eddie. My dad just finished replacing his single panes with double panes last summer. His electric bills in the summer usually ran into high $200's to low $300's. His first bill in August was $105. That's a huge savings. Of course his house was built in the early 1920's so I'm sure he was loosing alot from the old wood as well. If the savings stay on that trend with the gas as well, they will have paid for themselves within 5 years.

 

[EddieWalker]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. The study that said it was about a 30 year return on having the windows done was in ragards to paying a crew to come out and install them. Doing it yourself will cut down a huge part of the expense and allow you to see a return allot sooner. The actual time on this wasn't mentioned in the study, and I'd assume it would have allot to do with what you bought and what was involved with installing them. Some windows go in pretty easy, others take a massive amount of effort.

I also failed to mention that by adding storm glass to your existing single pane windows will result in almost the same R value as double paned windows, which is a HUGE savings on your investment as compared to replacing the eixisting windows with new.

New construction is a no brainer, double pane windows are better, but what you pay for the window doesn't actually have allot to do with energy efficiency and how well they work.

Eddie

 

[woodlandfarms]

One other factor you might be missing Eddie is that the R value is different if the glass is on a sun side of the house. New double pane windows with Low E coating can greatly reduce AC costs by reflecting heat. Not so much insulating. That said, going from R3 to R4 helps, every bit does.

Personally, I think it is really hard to recoup energy savings investments at least not for 20 or more years. That said I don't mind reducing my carbon footprint, helping out the grid. although that might all be a bit of a myth if manufacturing is so high for some of these energy savings...

I was at an Modern Architecture conference, and one thing I took away from all of this is that architects are changing there focus, from trying to keep a house warm to trying to keep a house cool. Cooling was always an afterthought in construction (based on AC not really being available until the 60's). That Heating took precedence but now it is being found that we spend more trying to cool a house than heat it.

edit, This was cooling for 1920's and on. Apparently the old plantation houses had fantastic natural cooling systems with the central house dormer / whatever that let heat escape out of the center of the house).

I am also intrigued in SIP construction. Mike, can you give us more reasons that you went with SIP, and how it is all coming together. How did your contractor take on the project, or has he done a SIP before.

Carl

 

[mike69440]

I see your avitar.

69 Charger RT/SE black w/Black Vinyl roof, 440-6 Hemi, 4 speed, 3.54 Dana bendix disc brakes, all options less air, Naw I don't miss it much.


Sold mine to buy this daily driver.

Gets 20 MPg and near 600 HP, but not at the same time.
See:
Long, long post on my new Whipple Install with comments. - Page 7 - ModularFords.com

Back to the house:

R5 windows in 80 % of house. I went double Argon in triple slider/picture window, 1/2 circletop and the bay window as R5's would have been $9000 for just those 4 windows. The remaining windows were les than $15,000 including barn. (Double Argon there also)
The basic windows are huge 83" X 53" RO.

 

[6sunset6]

I super insulated my new house 12 years ago R50 in the roof R 30 in the walls . a very tight vapor barrier , outside wall wiring inside the vapor barrier. Air to air heat exchanger . I was the GC and did the electrical and plumbing myself.
This is a passive solar house , a lot of glass on the sun south side. We use insulating blinds on almost all the glass at night. Long story short , I can stand in my front doorway , north side , door open, in the winter ,10d F with my arms strectched out and one is cold and the other warm and no draft. There is no draft in the whole house. I have to open a window to start the fireplace. It draws combustion air from outside. Did not mean to hijack the thread but I am a firm believerer in as tight and as well insulated as possible and then control the environment.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Ohhhhh Mike. I am selling my charger as we speak. Simple 383 car but is heavily appointed inside. Was my Daily driver till we hit 3 per gal. Don't care that it is down right now, only going back up. Your charger sounds like a monster. Must have been a head turner.

BTW, Jeffrey Katzenberg (Dreamworks) has two of those mustangs that he drives to work every day. No limo's, just the mustangs. My hopes is that with the sale of the car and some additional cash I can go to this high mileage animal

Welcome to Ariel Atom

Ahh, we can dream, can't we?

So back to the house, more about SIPS.

 

[mike69440]

SIPS roof is R48 not R 38 So R26 wall R 48 roof. My problem is all that glass. Windows have low air infitration.

Still hindsight tells me to Stick bild and spray in foam. Notice that no modular manfacturer is using SIPs, to my knowledge. Structually SIPS would make a great Modular, however modular home people have to be cost conscience.

 

[dmccarty]

What is stuck in my head is that most heat/energy loss is up and not from the walls. And then there is air infiltration.

We put in big windows in the house. Double pane, metal clad wood casements windows. I looked at triple pane but the return was not there for our area and the extra glass limited the size of the windows due to weight.

We have R40ish in the attic which was what was recommended for our area. The walls are 2x6 with rigid foam for another R5. I think the R value worked out to be R24ish. Then we put in 12x6, 8x6 or 8x5 windows/holes in every room.

I think we pay for the view somewhat but we sit right next to the windows and do not feel the outside temperature at all. In our old house with METAL windows you could feel the heat transfer from the windows. We should put up drapes/blinds to help out the energy loss but we enjoy the view. Only during the winter can we even see the lights of our nearest neighbors, 1200ish feet away, so drapes/blinds are not needed for privacy.

We heat with wood so heating cost is not an issue but I suppose we would be a few degrees warmer with the same wood burned. AC costs are about $90 a month during the worst month so lesser/smaller windows would save how much? $10? $20?

I think we made the right decisions putting in the windows/holes vs energy usage.

FYI there is a program called FESFEN that will show the energy costs for windows. I used it to decide WHICH window brand to buy. The program takes the window rating, window square footage, facing, power usages, house size, etc to calculate energy usage/costs. You can see if that extra window efficiency is worth the extra dollars. The program was real close to reality in our case. The program is free. Well our taxes paid for it.

Later,
Dan