Buying a ZTR, what should I look for, or avoid?

[buckeyefarmer]

The wife wants a ZTR and with the number of trees to go around it's a chore trying to do it with the tractor which only has a brush-hog. 5 acres is probably the maximum that the ZTR would see and the hills are gentle.

The local dealers carry Cub Cadet, John Deere, Stihl and Gravely. The big box stores are Lowes and Tractor Supply.

Personally I'd prefer to avoid the big box stores as they don't service what they sell and some things tend to get discontinued quickly.

I have no experience with ZTR's and almost all my small engine stuff has been powered by Honda engines so I'm not familiar with the Kohler, Briggs, etc. in their current incarnations (go back 50 years and I'd swear by Briggs). My UTV is powered by an 812cc Kawasaki and I've had no issues with it.
'
So... What should I be looking for?

avoid low end units, look for residential/commercial quality.
I compared engine, which transmission vs price

 

[greenie]

I bought a used diesel Kubota ZD26 with a bagger two years ago. Extremely pleased. New diesels are very expensive and complex with emissions.

 

[CloverKnollFarms]

I'd buy a commercial unit. I have a Hustler X-One 72"... It's been a beast. About 1300lbs. Parker pumps.

 

[stevem5215]

Spend the most you are comfortable with for a good quality built machine and if bumpy in the cutting areas suspension is better but suspension seat is good too. It all adds up quickly and a good quality machine can be over 10g's.

 

[Jaybr]

I have never seen a hydro rated for acreage. However the hydros are rated for a max weight. Many companies will skimp on they hydro creating a mower that is to large for the hydro.
Toro Titan 60", 845 lbs.

I've not actually seen that rating either, but heard mention of it on a few video's when researching.

I have seen recommended lawn size on mower manufacturer sites.

I'm guessing homeowners average around 50 hours a year on their mowers, commercial guys probably average 10 times that. So in my simple mind, if I buy a mower designed to run 500 hours a year, and only run it 75 hours a year, it's going to last me a long time. And if I run a homeowner model 75 hours a year it won't last long.

 

[lman]

It looks like you have Country Clipper dealers down there. We've had one for several years and have had no problems. I like the one hand joystick steering along with the flip up deck for under deck access.

 

[workinonit]

I bought a used diesel Kubota ZD26 with a bagger two years ago. Extremely pleased. New diesels are very expensive and complex with emissions.

Not true. The Kubota 1211 has no emissions equipment. It is expensive though.

 

[big bubba]

not bad, you'll have to scroll through the intro though

 

[wolc123]

It really is fun mowing with the new Husqvarna z-454 that I bought for my parents place this spring. We are on vacation up in the mountains with the in-laws this weekend but I can’t wait to stop and cut my parents lawn on our drive home Monday.

It would be tougher waiting, were the smallmouth bass not biting up here like they were going out of style. I had to let all them go (season don’t open till June 15). I only caught one “target” perch so far.

 

[DK35vince]

not bad, you'll have to scroll through the intro though

Both our mowers are listed on that video.
We have a 2013 Hustler Super Z (35 HP Kawasaki with 72" deck) and a 2020 Snapper Pro s200xt (37 HP Vanguard EFI with oil guard and 72" deck)

 

[gengine]

I have never seen a hydro rated for acreage. However the hydros are rated for a max weight. Many companies will skimp on they hydro creating a mower that is to large for the hydro.
Toro Titan 60", 845 lbs.

| Toro

www.toro.com

Uses HydroGear 2800 that is rated at 1000 lbs max.

ZT-2800® - Estate-Grade Residential Transaxle - Hydro-Gear

Our most rugged residential transaxle for machines up to 1000 pounds.

www.hydro-gear.com

That leaves 155 lbs for the operator and 5 gallons of gas (30 lbs) so dont fill it up and weigh more than 125lbs.

I was a Husqvarna dealer for 12 years, just changed careers a year ago. Trans axles are used in lawn tractors. ZTRs use 2 pump/motor units, at around 1000# a piece, giving you nearly 2000#.
As for the OP, If you went for a Husky, I would say a minimum of a Z4xx series, it is a robust residential unit. If I were doing what you are, I would buy a Walker, hands down.

 

[big bubba]

Both our mowers are listed on that video.
We have a 2013 Hustler Super Z (35 HP Kawasaki with 72" deck) and a 2020 Snapper Pro s200xt (37 HP Vanguard EFI with oil guard and 72" deck)

sounds like you done right. as a footnote that seems obvious but will say anyway: within a manufacturer, there are both consumer (box store quality) all the way up to heavy duty commercial grade models.,

mention this as a friend has a lower end Hustler (raptor i believe) that has been one headache after another incl replacing pumps. highly suggest going upper tier on any manufacturer.
many of the upper end models use Parker pumps, & Hydro Gear motors

 

[WinterDeere]

What to watch for:

If buying gasser engines, I'd only go Kawasaki on a commercial ZTR. If it has a Briggs, or any one of the several other brand names Briggs uses (e.g. Intek), I'm not even looking at it. I'm having trouble remembering ever seeing any commercial zero turn wearing anything other than a Kawasaki V-twin, they're damn near obligatory / standard.

Heavy cast front casters are a must for me, those things take a serious beating. I look at the folded flat steel casters featured on many ZTR's, and wonder how they're not constantly flexing and bending.

Look at what your local pro's are running, as that's probably a better indicator than any as to how they do under your local conditions and how well they're supported with locally stocked parts, mechanics, etc. Around here, the pros only run two brands today: Deere and Exmark.

(The local pro's used to run a lot of Scag, as well. But it's probably been 15+ years since I've seen any new Scag mower on a landscaper's trailer. Maybe their local dealer went away?)

What to avoid:

Your biggest problem with any ZTR is grass clogging the hydro pump cooling and the engine cooling. But how good or bad a mower design is in these regards is going to be real tough to assess on a dealer's lot.

Once you pick a brand, model, and deck configuration, start reading the lawnsite forum. Lot's of pro landscapers on that forum, and you can search to see if the configuration you've picked is receiving a lot of posts about trouble. On some models, even pro models, you'll find one specific deck configuration (e.g. 72" mulching) has lots of trouble, while other deck configurations are trouble-free.

Other:

The suspension mowers may be worth checking out, especially if your wife might be using it. I run a Deere 757, and they're known for a particularly stiff frame, it really jostles you around pretty hard. The Exmarks are known for a slightly softer ride, even without suspension, but those newer suspension chassis mowers from Ferris and others must be an even nicer ride. I'd not want to ride my Deere ZTR if I had breasts, I think they'd be bouncing off my knees, the ride on that mower is so damn rough at full speed.

The comments about diesels amuse me. We've run the numbers on this more than once, in fact there was a thread debating this just two weeks ago. There is no way any homeowner mowing their own 5 acres can ever justify the high upfront cost of a diesel. Even the commercial guys have to work hard just to break even on the cost of a diesel vs. gasser, based on fuel cost alone. The advantages of diesel are likely more on the convenience of carrying just one fuel for mowers and tractors, and in engine lifespan for those racking up a thousand hours per year. But for any homeowner doing 100 hours per year, your deck is going to rot out long before you exceed the 2000+ hour lifespan of a Kawi V-twin.

 

[big bubba]

extensive info above, good points. another component oft overlooked is rear wheel/tire size. many lower end models have barbie sized rear wheels. just as in tractors, get the largest wheel size avail for a better ride & traction.

 

[IXLR8]

The other thing to keep in mind, is what grass you are mowing. Some decks do good with one kind of grass and terrible on other grasses. A good idea was mentioned earlier... what are the local pro's running? They won't run machines that don't work well with your local grasses.

 

[greenie]

Not true. The Kubota 1211 has no emissions equipment. It is expensive though.

25 or 26 HP is the maximum cut off before T4 emissions are required. At work we had a ZD331 pre-emission and I liked it so much we ordered a new one in 2018. The newer one had T4 emissions; a small turbo looking device, a large filter but no DEF. Kubota tacked on additional of frame in the middle to accommodate the additional length which allowed enough flex to make opening the hood difficult at times. It would do a burn off occasionally and the purchase price reflected the additional plumbing and electronics. The pre-emission ZD331 was by far better than the T4 zero turn in ride, quality of cut, purchase price, and reliability. Maybe they're better now.

 

[workinonit]

Yea, it's 25. I think the 1211 is 24.6 or something.

 

[MMC]

What to watch for:

If buying gasser engines, I'd only go Kawasaki on a commercial ZTR. If it has a Briggs, or any one of the several other brand names Briggs uses (e.g. Intek), I'm not even looking at it. I'm having trouble remembering ever seeing any commercial zero turn wearing anything other than a Kawasaki V-twin, they're damn near obligatory / standard.

Heavy cast front casters are a must for me, those things take a serious beating. I look at the folded flat steel casters featured on many ZTR's, and wonder how they're not constantly flexing and bending.

Look at what your local pro's are running, as that's probably a better indicator than any as to how they do under your local conditions and how well they're supported with locally stocked parts, mechanics, etc. Around here, the pros only run two brands today: Deere and Exmark.

(The local pro's used to run a lot of Scag, as well. But it's probably been 15+ years since I've seen any new Scag mower on a landscaper's trailer. Maybe their local dealer went away?)

What to avoid:

Your biggest problem with any ZTR is grass clogging the hydro pump cooling and the engine cooling. But how good or bad a mower design is in these regards is going to be real tough to assess on a dealer's lot.

Once you pick a brand, model, and deck configuration, start reading the lawnsite forum. Lot's of pro landscapers on that forum, and you can search to see if the configuration you've picked is receiving a lot of posts about trouble. On some models, even pro models, you'll find one specific deck configuration (e.g. 72" mulching) has lots of trouble, while other deck configurations are trouble-free.

Other:

The suspension mowers may be worth checking out, especially if your wife might be using it. I run a Deere 757, and they're known for a particularly stiff frame, it really jostles you around pretty hard. The Exmarks are known for a slightly softer ride, even without suspension, but those newer suspension chassis mowers from Ferris and others must be an even nicer ride. I'd not want to ride my Deere ZTR if I had breasts, I think they'd be bouncing off my knees, the ride on that mower is so damn rough at full speed.

The comments about diesels amuse me. We've run the numbers on this more than once, in fact there was a thread debating this just two weeks ago. There is no way any homeowner mowing their own 5 acres can ever justify the high upfront cost of a diesel. Even the commercial guys have to work hard just to break even on the cost of a diesel vs. gasser, based on fuel cost alone. The advantages of diesel are likely more on the convenience of carrying just one fuel for mowers and tractors, and in engine lifespan for those racking up a thousand hours per year. But for any homeowner doing 100 hours per year, your deck is going to rot out long before you exceed the 2000+ hour lifespan of a Kawi V-twin.

Since a lot of you ask about ZTRs and the like, let me second WinterDeere's recommendation to sign on to "Lawnsite." I have used that site for commercial opinions on ZTRs for over 20 years. If you make your living on these machines, you know something...listen.

Based on that site, I bought a lightly used Ferris 4500 in 2007 with a 30HP+ Vanguard engine. Great mower and great engine...except for the amount of gas it used. Sold it to my friend and took a friend's beating on it - he is still using it today with a large country yard to mow.

Fast forward to today. A 2013 BadBoy diesel ZTR and a Kubota front deck diesel. Both are good "farm" machines. (tried a Ferris 2600 with a Yanmar diesel in between.) Designed by idiots. Simply too hard to service (although the Yanmar engine is great) but the 4500 was a breeze. Still, the Ferris suspension system is great...and greatly costly.

But, since Winter Deere is really down on B&S engines, Intek particularly, I got one made on a Wednesday apparently. I bought it as a throw away mower at Walmart in 2002 when my job moved for a while. I used it in very heavy grass down south. Foot operated Hydro, mowed great. Curious, I put an hour meter on it. Today, still used on the farm in KY to trim for an hour each mowing. Something like 900 hours. Uses very little oil-replaced starter once and last year all of the idlers and pulleys underneath (but never a spindle - they are greaseable). A really uncomfortable process by the way. Use only synthetic oil, changed once a year with filter.

Now, would I recommend a B&S homeowner engine today? No. But sometimes you get lucky.

Best of Luck.

 

[Tinhack]

I have never seen a hydro rated for acreage. However the hydros are rated for a max weight. Many companies will skimp on they hydro creating a mower that is to large for the hydro.
Toro Titan 60", 845 lbs.

| Toro

www.toro.com

Uses HydroGear 2800 that is rated at 1000 lbs max.

ZT-2800® - Estate-Grade Residential Transaxle - Hydro-Gear

Our most rugged residential transaxle for machines up to 1000 pounds.

www.hydro-gear.com

That leaves 155 lbs for the operator and 5 gallons of gas (30 lbs) so dont fill it up and weigh more than 125lbs.

I've never seen a ZTR with just one of those transmissions. Must be a unicycle ZTR.

 

[WinterDeere]

But, since Winter Deere is really down on B&S engines, Intek particularly...

The Intek engines might be as reliable as concrete, maybe I should haven't sounded so harsh. I was just arguing I would personally stick with the nearly-ubiquitous Kawi V-twin. They're so common that everyone knows them, parts are everywhere, and YouTube is chock-full of videos on how to deal with every problem you'll ever have with one. Replacements are also easily available, when faced with the worst-case scenario.

But I actually own three pieces of equipment with Briggs engines, and one is an Intek. I don't love them, the head bolts are forever working themselves loose on one, and the Intek has more engine noise coming off the intake than probably any other engine I've ever owned. But they do work, and I have to admit they've all been reliable.